what is interesting is that black Californians voted 70-30 in favor of Prop 8. So much for them buying into the gay rights struggle being just like the civil rights struggle.

Surprisingly, Bacon said something that’s spot-on accurate: “we at All Saints are also deeply disturbed”.

Susan Russell was interviewed on the local radio news station yesterday assuring the public that All Saints’ would go right on blessing gay marriages no matter what. They just can’t write certificates. Feh.

Oh, and there seem to be a lot of gays happy to fling racist epithets at blacks ever since last Tuesday – see Instapundit for more details.

There have been protests daily all over Los Angeles, making traffic hell (as if it isn’t already). Yeah, *that’s* really going to predispose me to their cause.

This quote from John Aravosis really puzzles me:

“They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards,” he said. “You don’t do that and get away with it.”

If gays and lesbians care about the legitimacy of the their children, why do they have them when same sex marriage is not legally valid? It seems like we see a lot of children of gay or lesbian couples that were conceived or adopted before the California Supreme Court decision, which was made on May 15th, 2008. There was just a narrow window when those marriages were legitimate.

“They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards,” he said. “You don’t do that and get away with it.”

Kind of like a drug dealer blaming society for making him a criminal by not legalizing dope.

Living in California, I have to say the No on 8 campaign was truly bizarre. They seemed to just assume total amnesia on the part of voters, and acted as if gay marriage had been the law of the land forever and a handful of wackos had just suddenly got it into their heads to try to ban it for no reason.

As others have noted, apart from the one truly hateful Mormon-bashing ad produced by an independent organization, none of the ads even depicted a gay couple — much less made any attempt to make a positive attempt to argue for why gay marriage is a good idea.

Personally, I’m pretty much resigned to GM happening eventually, but the insulting and offensive tone of the No on 8 folks really steeled my resolve to vote Yes.

1.) It’s becoming clear why healthy societies throughout history have not been tolerant of same-sex behavior, and it has nothing to do with religion or “the yuck factor”. The ideology derived from the sexual disorder is toxic.

http://www.johannhari.com/archive/article.php?id=407

2.) Christopher is onto the core issue (a core issue, really) in this:

empirical proof that there actually is a separate class of human being called “homosexual”

Otherwise intelligent people are quite willing to suspend reason on this subject, dodging and weaving around whatever science, however tentative and questionable, can be pressed into service to “prove” same-sex attractions are genetically or biologically caused. When you point out the prevalence of biologically or genetically caused birth defects, they go silent. Of course, they have nothing but personal opinion that homosexual attractions are a normal variant of human experience rather than disordered. We will not win this battle until we break the false link between race and disordered sexuality.

3.) There is not now, nor has there ever been a “right” to marry anyone you want. I can’t marry my sister, mother, or close cousins. Their whining about their “rights” is simply another example of manipulating civil rights language to assuage their own needs.

Finally, it appears that economic prosperity in society breeds a variety of dysfunctions. It’s all about materialism, manifested in this case in sexual disorder. Perhaps God will be merciful and this society won’t suffer complete collapse. History doesn’t breek optimism on that count, however.

I am Miffed with a capital M. Did these bozos miss out on how active the Catholic Church was in preaching against Proposition 8? Did they not notice the white robed army of blind albino monks skulking about the homes of gay couples ready to burst in and destroy field hockey trophies and “Dummies Guide To The Tonys” book?

Honestly what is with these people? Can we not get them to form a boycott against the Catholic Church. Refusing to go to any city where a Bishop so much as frowned at the mention of same sex marriage? I sure would feeel just cruddy if they decided to boycott Florida. I mean really, really, really, awfully so. Cruddy, despondent, sad, regretful, just gosh darn in the dumps about it. Yes I sure would.

The do like to go on about the shellfish, don’t they? I’ve been hearing that for 25 years.

As a resident of California, I can tell you the protesters against Prop 8 are organized and will not let up – it’s getting a little scary. They are going back to the courts again, and even our “esteemed” governor is backing them. Of course, most people who voted for Prop 8 (and traditional marriage) are back to their everyday lives, going to work, raising families, helping the in the community. But the “no on 8″ group are going to push and push and push until they get their way. They are protesting the Mormon Church because they know they can get away with it, given the numbers. Going after the Roman Catholic Church would tick off too many Hispanics (who voted overwhelmingly, like blacks, for the Democratic candidates but in favor of 8). They have protested now in front of Saddleback (Rick Warren’s church) and I have heard audio of Ed Bacon from All Saints Pasadena all day on local talk radio fulminating from the pulpit (to racous applause) on how THIS CANNOT STAND (because, you know, the vote of the people for Obama was a indication of the common man’s intelligence but a vote of the people in favor of 8 shows their ignorance and bigotry!) Those protesting 8 have the logical skills of a slug – but they don’t need skills, they just need the constant wearing away until all the voters in California get “marriage fatigue” and then they’ll go in for the kill.

But you have gotta admit that one thing gays do really, really, really well – stereotype of truth – is whine, Whine, WHine, WHIne WHINe, WHINE, and WWHHIINNEE! Proof’s in the pudding.

Oh, and they were bright enough to vote for Obama, those nasty ol’ PROP 8-ers. NOtice how the inability to think is related to whiners? The only vote that mattered was PROP 8 obviously! Kill the in utero, PROP 4, in non-majority aged children,OK.
Elect the O-man, okay. NOT GIVE GAYS MARRIAGE?

W
H
I
N
E

and look out for the sky falling and earth quaking

cuz they gonna stamp their footsies in tantrums and

W
H
I
N
E
!

Just where does this “20,000 couples” number come from, anyway?

“They just took marriage away from 20,000 couples and made their children bastards,” he said. “You don’t do that and get away with it.”

Are these ‘bastard’ children the miraculous fruit of their same-sex intercourse in the context of their marriage?

This commenter wants to know how exactly same-sex marriage can possibly ‘legitimise’ children. Does Mr. Aravosis have an answer to that?

Hi Paula,
Funny you should mention that … just this morning I noticed a shift to blaming the Roman Catholics.

But in Florida they voted for traditional marriage by a margin of 62% – 38%. So why aren’t they threatening to boycott Florida? Oh, that’s right, then they couldn’t go to Disney World, could they? Can’t miss out on Gay Day with Mickey!

2-Pronged solution:

Indaba Groups and The Listening Process.

Wonder how Mr. Bacon would react to a proposed constitutional amendment outlawing all abortions, premised on the notion of “guaranteeing human rights for all?” Bet it would be fun to watch.

Looks like someone predicted California and Aravosis got it precisely back to front. It is he and friends who want to create a nation of bastards

Perpetua, That is good news indeed. If an organization spends years, nay centuries building up a rent as the nefarious dark force behind all world conspiracies. That organization does take it as a personal affront when those efforts are ignored.

It would have broken my heart if us Catholics had not made the dishonor roll. The Mormons, The Masons, the Illumaniti, the Zionists, the TriLateral Commission, the World Bank. Sure it is a scary list but nothing puts a tremor to the heart like WORLD POPERY. The Scarlet Whore of Babylon, The Women Riding The Beast. See already you know the world freedom lovin people everywhere are in peril. Grand stuff, ain’t it?

Christopher:
Retort to Ed: Yeah how immoral to abuse the state constitute to promote abortions, and via the ‘freedom of choice’ act: infantcide, statutory rape, interference of parental authourity; and by extension, underage drinking or smoking .
Jennifer can’t drink herself drunk or buy a pack of smokes but she can abort without the parents even being aware nor can the hospitals report probable statutory rape.

xavier

I have an answer to the whole mess: Get the government out of licensing marriage.

I looked carefully and thoughtfully in the Bible and could find nothing that says couples must have a marriage license issued from the government. Government licensed marriage to protect women, children and property of families in an age where they were “things” owned by men. That time has (thankfully) come and gone.

Folks, government is almost never the answer. In this case, all it does is confuse and complicate.

Get the government out of our lives and take this issue away from the Loon Left fruitcakes.

-Jim+

“What is particularly shameful about Proposition 8’s victory Tuesday is that so many religious people promoted it using a distorted interpretation of Scripture.”

Yeah, that’s a specialty of Ed’s.

So let’s see now. If I remember correctly, the proportion of supposedly “gay” individuals is about 2 to 3 percent of the population. [Note to Ed Bacon: Kinsey's statistics were all lies and his methodology worthless. Read the memo.]. Such numbers hardly make up a “norm.”

What the GLBT lobby does not want people to know is the true percentage of the distribution of “gayness.” That would be a tip off that what is at issue is a deviation from normal behavior. Homosexual behavior is deviant behavior. There! You heard it here first!

The goal of GLBT;s is to distort that clarity. Just remember, homosexual behavior (not orientation) is deviant behavior. Keep saying it until you can get it right even in the face of spitting mobs of screeching, caterwauling, hissy-fitting deviants. That is what it will take to bread this monopoly on the question.

What is ironic is that in voting for Obama, the Hispanics and the blacks in California have elected a man who is dedicated to advancing the gay agenda. Now there is an interesting topic for conversation. Just what were they thinking?

Well, the definition of bastard is a child born when the parents are not married. I’m not sure whether subsequent adoption by “married” people changes that fact. Secondly, are any of these children the actual genetic offspring of either partner in these gay “marriages”? If not, then how has the child’s ststus as a bastard been changed? If the child was born of an unwed mother, it is a bastard. (A term that is not used much in our society any more, anyway.) If the child was born of one of the partners in a lesbian arrangement, the mother probably was not married to the genetic father, hence the child is also a bastard. Likewise, if the father is gay and procreates via sperm donation. If not married to the woman who bears the child, the baby is born out of wedlock, therefore a bastard.

Were there any children in these gay couples that weren’t “bastards” before adoption? I think the term bastard (again, not commonly used in this country any more.) was tossed into this distribe merely for it’s shock value. The poor children are no more nor no less bastards now than they were before. The only difference is they’ve simply been allowed to be adopted by two people that are living together. If the state of California continues to allow such adoptions, then shame on them.

‘Gay’ rights activists disrupted a church service in Michigan on Sunday. There has been an interesting discussion about this at Stand Firm:
http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/17781/

Nation-wide temper tantrums, er, demonstrations, have been planned for November 15. Perpetua of Carthage has a link to the organizers’ site that lists locations near you.
http://perpetuaofcarthage.blogspot.com/2008/11/coming-to-city-near-you.html

This link has a photo of a gang of ‘pink terrorists’ like those that invaded the church.
I’m sure the children were traumatized. http://hotrodanglican.blogspot.com/2008/11/were-queer-were-here-to-disrupt-your.html
One of the commentors at Stand Firm found this at the site of ‘BASH BACK’ that organized this *demon*stration:
“Found this by googling “bash back news”. It was dated 10/23/08:
***PLEASE FORWARD***hey everyone!

Queers and Trannies Bash Back!, is going to be doing a very creative and fun action on Sunday November 9th. There is space for all levels of involvement and risk. We need people to do anything from just engaging in conversation, to tossing some glitter, to playing spin the bottle, to a more “militant”-looking presence out side of the building. I can tell you that we are targeting a well-known anti-queer, anti-choice radical right wing establishment. However, we cant give you really any detailed information due to the cop who’s ridiculous job it is to do surveillance over this blog, if you are interested, trust us, its going to be amazing!

Either dress in casual clothes so you can blend with general people and have a pink or blue mask or bandanna or flag or something that you can hide and then use to distinguish you as a protester later. Or if you want to be a part of the out side action, wear pink and black and have a mask. The out door action isnt going to be a presence that is necessarily going to do anything more than look scary to grab attention. So masks, noise makers, and flags, etc..”

This is so obviously premeditated. They are in a heap of trouble (or they better be).

Whitestone, I followed the link to Perpetua’s site. Apparently they are planning protests in most major cites. How exactly (I wonder) does this send a message to either voters or legislators in California, if they march around City Hall Plaza in Boston, MA?

So they plan this “protest” at city hall at noontime on a weekday. Most of the people that will view this are office workers crossing the plaza to get lunch.

Not sure if this is the best thought out plan. Not that that bothers me.

How do I put this properly: I almost wish they’d come and do the same thing at MY church! I really don’t want to give the nice old ladies heart attacks, or traumatize the children too badly, but my church needs some shaking up, to see who really believes, who really understands their part in the church. I bet a quarter of the churchgoers would disappear, disgusted and/or embarassed and/or in agreement with the protesters. But we can invite them back in charity when the smaller and more fervent church unites and reaches out.

note to protesters: just bring it! I’ll make like Jesus with the whip at the temple, and clear you out.

A comment from another blog, in response to a link to a story about vandalism of a Mormon building.

Chris in Los Angeles says:

November 11, 2008, at 5:23 pm

The Mormon Church consciously chose to use its places as worship as a political machine center, churning out voters, passing out signs and pressuring church memmbers for cash. Can anyone really think that these same political/sacred centers are somehow immune from the political response to their politic activities?

If anyone has sullied the Mormon temples, it is the Mormons themselves. Jesus threw the moneylenders out of the temple, I suspect he would have thrown the political campaigners out too. Religious bodies everywhere need to reflect on how far it is appropriate for churches to enter into the political realm.

Here’s another example of public harrassment:

http://www.anglicantv.org/blog/index.cfm/2008/11/11/A-least-Jesus-warned-us-this-would-happen-one-day

They knocked the cross out of the lady’s hands and stomped on it.

Jim+

The sad fact is that the status of marriage has a number of implications within society that cannot just be left to individual declaration. Rights of inheritance, property rights between spouses during life, rights to manage children, rights in divorce, etc., all of which are administered in some way by state courts or other agencies. There really needs to be some way to establish who is and who isn’t married to who, and the government-issued marriage license has become the way to do that. If we all lived in communities where everybody knew everybody else (and didn’t move from those communities) you might be able to do without some government formalization of marriage, but that ain’t the society we live in any more.

As I have written in another thread on this forum, the whole gay “marriage” push is driven largely by the desire for desperately sick people to get themselves covered under somebody else’s health insurance without being subject to underwriting (i.e., being subject to rejection for a preexisting condition.) Most group health plans automatically cover “spouses” without underwriting, as marriage has such substantial independent consequences that most people won’t get married just to get insurance. Virtually no group plan will let unrelated parties in, largely because the principal reason an unrelated party would want in is because they were sick – resulting in what is known as “adverse selection.” (Individual policies are almost always subject to underwriting, so those aren’t a solution for the AIDS folks.)

Hi skeptic5,

I know what you say is a big part of it. Did you write more about this on the other thread? Which one?

Do you have any references to back this up? I have been thinking it but not seen it written about anywhere.

I have been wondering if the intensity behind this push for same sex marriage will dissipate if we get nationalized health care.

Oh, I doubt that the push for gay “marriage” aka homogamy (a great word I just learned today) is due just to health insurance. While that is probably important for many, I think this is far more about normalizing that which is abnormal. Even in states that permit it, there are not very many such marriages performed after the initial flurry.

What those sodomites are desperate for – in my honest opinion – is to not be reminded in any way whatsoever, directly or indirectly, that their ways are plain WRONG!!!

They know, deep down in the bottom-most parts of their consciousness (or even sub-consciousness for the really-depraved), where they simply CAN’T SUPPRESS – no matter how hard they try at all costs! – that they’re going against the truth (especially in the name of their narcissism!). That’s precisely what they are FORCED to deny at every single turn; and since Judæo-Christian civilisation is precisely the thing that opposes them and their ways, it’s inevitable that they’ll turn anti-Christian!

In so doing, not a few of them (I fear) have committed the unpardonable sin whereby God Has Abandoned them forever to the evil of their ways. Many of them will be forced against their wills to acknowledge otherwise only at the Last Judgement, when it will be far too late…

Even if health-insurance, inheritance rights, etc. were all on their side, they nevertheless can’t – and won’t EVER!!! – stop until nothing remains but their falsehood!!! They’re intrinsically biased towards REAL hate, anger, violence, etc. at the slightest possible reminder against their wicked ways. This is a NO-WIN situation that will last ’till Kingdom Come…

It’s in that particular regard (where they’re reminded explicitly about their ways!) that Proposition 8 hurts them more than on the surface they’re really letting on or are pretending to be.

It’s going to be a sodomite dictatorship or else civil war this will ultimately lead to… [Enough of them have already made plain their contempt of democracy - which is perfectly in line with their totalitarian beliefs (for only that will give them any real comfort because the contrary voices will then be suppressed, even by the most sadistic, violent means imaginable {entirely in line with the sado-masochistic bent in a number of them!})...]

Mark my words: Barack Obama will issue an Executive Order within a few weeks of taking office that will rescind the “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” policy of the US military regarding homosexuals serving. Remember how President Clinton attempted to set a similar policy (allowing “out” gays/lesbians to serve) in place when he first took office because of the overwhelming support he received from gay/lesbians in the campaign. Again, Clinton was unfamiliar with military mores and the need for unit cohesion and good order and was surprised by the firestorm his attempt to overturn the rules caused. I think that is what Gen Colin Powell is going to be asked to oversee in the Obama administration. Obama himself doesn’t know a submarine from a sergeant, but the destructiveness and hatred of our “normal” American way of life makes these people crazy. They hated Sarah Palin because she did not abort her Down Syndrome baby boy, which was to the liberals a rebuke and judgement of their way of life, even though she never said a word against them. Their guilty consciences spoke plainly for all the world to see and now we see the nonsense taking place in California.

What about that evangelical church in Michigan (neither Mormon nor Catholic) that was stormed and vandalised by those sodomite Antichrists and anarchists? I dare say that those of us who are real believers are about to face serious persecutions that will only get progressively worse (at perhaps a very rapid rate…). Deliver us, Lord Jesus – I’m EXTREMELY frightened for the future, wherever we all happen to be!

And they did this church attack and desecration in Michigan, and the many incidents in California, on the 70th anniversary of Krystallnacht.

Roehm’s Sturmabteilung was a primarily homosexual organization, too.

I suspect that the current glass-breakers know this.

Ken, your first link (fascists) was creepy, but the second one was hilarious! “Religious bodies everywhere need to reflect on how far it is appropriate for churches to enter into the political realm.” Tell that to TEC! Tell that to Obama’s former pastor, or Louis Farrakhan!

Apparently, Mr. Aravosis doesn’t know how to define bastard, but he knows one when he sees one.

Couple of points:

1. Don’t ask don’t tell is STATUTORY. It was passed by Congress in 1993 and signed into law by arch militarist Bill Clinton. It will not be undone simply by an executive order. It remains to be seen whether there is any appetite in Congress to repeal it.

2. Lawsuits have been (or soon will be) filed in California to ask the CA Supreme Court to declare that the constitutional amendment just adopted by the populace is itself unconstitutional. Apparently the rule out there is that “amendments” to the constitution can be initiated by the people, but “revisions” have to be adopted by 2/3 of the legislature before being voted on by the people, and the argument will be that Prop 8 is some sort of revision which didn’t start in the legislature. It remains to be seen whether the CA supremes will have the stomach to go against the voters on this one. They all remember that Rose Bird was thrown out as Chief Justice in 1986 for never allowing an execution, thereby pissing off a majority of the electorate which had consistently supported capital punishment.

Hi skeptic5,

I was interested in your idea that same-sex marriage is being propelled by desperately sick people who are trying to get themselves covered under somebody else’s health insurance without being subject to underwriting Did you write more about this on the another thread? Which one?

Do you have any references to back this up? I have been thinking it but not seen it written about anywhere.

Boy,I wonder what the prop 8 opponents who are playing attack the church when a couple of hundred of Porter Rockwell’s grandsons meet them in the middle of Salt Lake City as they go after the Mormon Temple.

oops meant to say
I wonder what the prop 8 opponents who are playing attack the church will think as a couple of hundred of Porter Rockwell’s grandsons meet them in the middle of Salt Lake City,probably something pithy like
‘Where’s the little old ladies?’

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