The answer to your question, Mr. Johnson, is that you were a “zygote,” an “untermensch,” until you successfully transversed the birth canal, at which point you were entitled to a big, blue ribbon with the words “Human Being” printed on it. Safe at home! Of course, there is that fool at Princeton who says you could have been clubbed to death like a baby seal, even if you made it through the birth canal, if it was later determined that you were somehow “inconvenient.” This Ragsdale woman should really enjoy discussing her theories with Himmler in the Lake of Fire.

Christopher wrote: “So I’ve got three words for those people who are unwilling to consider the idea of breaking with a church for which such unadulterated evil is just another point of view.”

Here are my three words for those who plan to stay in TEC: RAISE HOLY HELL!!!

RAISE HOLY HELL…about Ragsdale
RAISE HOLY HELL…about Otis Charles
RAISE HOLY HELL…Spong
RAISE HOLY HELL…Robinson
RAISE HOLY HELL…Andrus riding in pride parades
RAISE HOLY HELL…Shori and her canon violations
RAISE HOLY HELL…about the hundreds of heresies compiled by the AAC and presented to the primates at Lambeth. Print and post them in the newspaper, mail them to the whole parish.
RAISE HOLY HELL…about the ACC/JSC meeting
RAISE HOLY HELL…whatever violates Scripture and the canons from now on.

If you do not speak up unequivocally and publicly and without ceasing (and pray without ceasing) or get out of there, you are helping them. Silence gives permission with these people and makes you their accomplices.

Might also help to re-read the Epistles and the first few chapters of Revelation.

PS – congratulations, Christopher, for making the front page of this ‘newspaper’.

At last you get the attention you deserve. Better look out for sabateurs and expect a heapin’ helpin’ of trollish posters for a while.

“…her critics aren’t giving voice to spontaneous, genuine moral outrage. Instead, they’re being manipulated by shadowy outsiders…”

Rats!! And to think that al this time I was convinced that I was against abortion because it violated Biblical teaching, and from a Christian love of life and the desire to know the mind of Christ. Instead, I have been manipulated by shadowy outsiders.

I hate it when that happens.

I hope and pray that every pew sitter in TEC reads that interview, because it is perfectly clear that it is Katie Rags who is being manipulated, and it ain’t by shadowy outsiders; it’s the Prince of the outer darkness that commands her soul.

Some of you have no sense of proportion. Imagine getting enraged over a zygote that will only grow up to devestate Mother Gaia with his voracious consumption of resources, his rape of the environment, his slavish devotion to fossil fuels, his gleeful clubbing of baby polar bears.

Every human life on this planet means that the hegenomy of misogynist, homophobes is bound to continue unchecked. It means that every tiny petal and every tiny wing may not get to open and unfurl. It means a failure to restore this country to its true glory when Mastadons roamed the plains and when man was a worshipper of his environment rather than a tyrant to it.

Come now, you must know that even the smallest of feet leave a carbon foot print? Can we ignore the dangerous exhalations of the newborn? I say not.

And aren’t we coming close to making these things in the lab? The whole pregnancy thing seems so anti science and smacks of religion. It needs to be regulated altogether with only enlightened people of new conciousness being assigned the state sanctioned 1 child bearing license.

We just can not afford to get all het up over some zygotes being dismembered and tossed aside like the crab legs from the seafood buffet.

Now is that the logical, spontaneous, organic rage of which Ragsdale is so enraptured? I wonder how she feels about the rage of heaven?

“When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. 10They called out in a loud voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth and avenge our blood?” 11Then each of them was given a white robe, and they were told to wait a little longer, until the number of their fellow servants and brothers who were to be killed as they had been was completed.” Maranatha!

Mr. Johnson: Oops! Forgot to congratulate you on getting your name on the front page of a newspaper! Hope you don’t start getting all “snooty” on us now that you are a “STAR!” Do keep in mind that getting your name in the paper either makes you “famous” or “notorious,” and that those aren’t necessarily the same thing.

Unfortunately, you, have, I think nailed the theology of Ragsdale, Paula. She appears deeply misogynistic. How did she ever function as a vicar in a local church, I wonder, because the fruit of the Spirit seems to be strongly absent?

Paula,

I exepect Ragsdale probably thinks that Revelation was simply written by angry, anti-semetic people and in many or all other ways comes from the John Shelby Spong school of Biblical criticism and interpretation.

I wonder what the Merlin of C.S. Lewis’ That Hideous Strength would say? Or do? If you haven’t read it, drop what you are doing and read it now. The recent history of T.E.C. bears several similarities to N.I.C.E., though with a patina of god-talk.

May God Have Mercy on that stinking good-for-nothing Katherine Ragsdale’s soul!!! Her “theology” is purely SATANIC!!!

The way she’s going, the prison of Hell after her death will keep her in its deepest bosom straight until the Last Judgement, at which point she’ll be cast by Jesus into the Lake of Fire without delay!!!

[For those whose minds know better than to believe the revisionists disparagements ("it's as if Christ is about to pronounce sentence", "it's all metaphor" or "it's a complete misconception against that God is Love" and other such nonsense & worse) hook, line and sinker, nothing better than that they contemplate Michelangelo Buonarroti's "Last Judgement"!!! An alternate painting on the same subject is that by Stephan Lochner...]

Chris, I sense you have a tough hide, You do have an astringent sense of humor, and I hope, dear man, that you have comment moderation for this blog because (pardon my poor French and the lack of ability to place the accent grave) but “Apres vous le deluge.” Now that you’re in the paper, the fans of Ragsdale and the militantly “progressive” TEC members will probably come after you here or by e-mail, I’m afraid. However, perhaps you are accustomed to that.

Kindest regards and prayers.

Made me shudder to read her remarks.

What paper, Chris? I think I missed something. Were you in the Post-Disgust?

Christopher Johnson: “So I’ve got three words for those people who are unwilling to consider the idea of breaking with a “church” for which such unadulterated evil is just another point of view.

Do the math.”

For the Institutionalists who are unwilling to break away from TEc, when they do the math of division their answer comes out with a Remainder.

And for others who do the spiritual math, the quotient should come out with a Remainder of Zero.

After all, how many were left remaining and alive after Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed?

St. Louisan,

I got a mention and this site got a link in that Boston Phoenix article referenced above.

For Ms. Ragsdale and others of her ilk, those who actually believe in the “faith once delivered to the saints” are delusional, homophobic, misogynist bigots.

Sure she dismisses any moral arguments as illogical. To them it is just “tissue”, disposable tissue at that. The problem with Katie Rags line of argument though is that it can be extended into other “pragmatic” situations – euthanizing older people because they are no longer productive and use up valuable resources, euthanizing “special needs” children because they are not productive and use up valuable resources. Quite frankly, her entire argument is based on “utility”.

What bothers me is that the current occupant of the White House and (I suspect) a majority of Congress tend to think along the same lines. So do not be surprised when Medicare starts getting cut because “we just don’t need to be spending all that money taking care of non-productive people who use up valuable resources.” Wait for it. It is coming and Katie Rags and her cronies will be the ones extolling such a brave new world order.

Here’s a really good article to serve as the antidote to Ragsdale’s toxins.

“Commentary: Let’s Get our Facts Straight about Tiller and Anti-Abortion Violence:
By Brian Clowes, PhD

http://www.anglican-mainstream.net/?p=11469#more-11469

While the Phoenix article mentioned that some folks had left TEC over the events of the last few years, it’s too bad the author didn’t mention how fast TEC’s membership has been hemorrhaging. Nor did the author mention the fact that EDS retrenched even before Katherine Ragsdale’s hiring.

While no publicity is bad publicity, am I reading a pro-Katie Rags twinge here? Emphasis is mine.

When Ragsdale’s appointment was announced this past March, it triggered a torrent of fear and loathing among religious conservatives. Midwest Conservative Journal editor Christopher Johnson, for example, dubbed Ragsdale “Rev. Mengele.”… Some of this venom almost certainly stemmed from the fact that Ragsdale is a lesbian.

Here’s a couple of quotes from the article linked above:
“4) Tiller has been tried on criminal indictments for multiple abuses of his practice, including breaking state laws requiring another medical doctor to verify that certain patients’ lives were at risk before performing late-term abortions. This man was no hero or saint, and his being held up as a martyr says more about pro-abortionists than it does about those they are trying to condemn.

5) Abortionists are not only widely considered an embarrassment to the medical profession, but they are much more likely to commit violence than to suffer violence. You may be surprised to learn that more than a dozen abortionists have been convicted of murder and manslaughter ? of their wives, of their patients, and even of other abortionists. Yet you never hear about these killings in the press (see http://www.abortionviolence.com/ for documentation). Abortionists are more likely to kill than to be killed.

6) Whenever an abortionist mutilates, kills or molests a woman, the “pro-choice” movement always rushes to his defense, as they did for Brian Finkel, the Arizona abortionist who was sent to prison for 35 years for 22 counts of sexual abuse. So much for caring for women!”

Some heroes these women choose.

Fear and loathing? I would call myself a moderate leaning towards conservatism, but nevertheless neither lesbians nor gays scare me. My background is in the theatre-lot of gay folks there, some of whom are my friends. My son’s sponsor for baptism is gay.

What I find loathsome is that anyone-gay or straight and a clergywoman to top it all off-would call abortion a blessing. It is also scary to think what other atrocities Ragsdale might also endorse (“The old folks are taking up too many resources. Let’s euthanize them.”) and admittedly it is scary ands loathsome that this woman can be approved to be Dean of seminary and approved for ordination in the first place. With her views on abortion, pardon my language, but I wouldn’t give a rat’s behind if she were gay OR straight. I pray for her healing. Only Jesus Christ can do that.

Congratulations on being mentioned on the very first page, way ahead of the IRD and their deep pockets!

Imagine, Christopher: you’re famous in Boston!

The bit that had me falling about laughing was this:

““The churches were real leaders of the civil-rights movement and the anti-war movement,” notes Ragsdale, “and after we got out of Vietnam, they turned their attention to the problems of capitalism, causing a panic among wealthy business folks who’d just seen the churches be successful [on those issues].”

Let’s run that by one more time: the Episcopal Church – the wealthy church (though okay, today not so flush with the dough); the church of the establishment, the educated, the upper-crust, the old money types; the church that made threatening noises about how it was funding the Anglican Communion, for crying out loud, so those Bible-thumpers had better re-think their objections or they’d find themselves left alone with not even two red pennies to rub together – this is the church that was going to tackle capitalism, and so scared all the rich people, they had to destoy it?

Yeah, sure.

I bet EDS must be real proud!

Hmmm, this:

““That’s the tragedy in most cases,” she continues. “That birth control failed, that they might want to have a baby but the economics are such that they can’t possibly afford it, that we don’t have healthcare, that women can’t choose to have the babies they want.” Ms. Ragsdale

or this:

“It is a poverty that a child must die so that you can live as you wish.” Blessed Theresa of Calcutta

You decide.

“While no publicity is bad publicity, am I reading a pro-Katie Rags twinge here?”

Undoubtedly. The Phoenix is an “alternative” newspaper, which means they probably make the Globe look conservative by comparison, much as the City Paper does to the Washington Compost Heap around here.

I just have to laugh every time I hear/read what these self-lauding delusional poor souls describe as “mainstream Episcopalian”. Mainstream? That big leak of thousands upon millions leaving because they can’t stomach any more of this crap? And they have to lay people off from the seminaries and diocesan staffs because the money is also leaving. Yep, Chris, “Do the math” is right.

Several scriptures came to mind in the last few days:

Psalm 139:13 For you created my inmost being;
you knit me together in my mother’s womb.

14 I praise you because I am fearfully and
wonderfully made;
your works are wonderful,
I know that full well.

15 My frame was not hidden from you
when I was made in the secret place.
When I was woven together in the depths of the
earth,

16 your eyes saw my unformed body.
All the days ordained for me
were written in your book
before one of them came to be.

17 How precious to [b] me are your thoughts, O God!
How vast is the sum of them!

18 Were I to count them,
they would outnumber the grains of sand.
When I awake,
I am still with you.

19 If only you would slay the wicked, O God!
Away from me, you bloodthirsty men!

20 They speak of you with evil intent;
your adversaries misuse your name.

And

Jeremiah 1:5 “Before I formed you in the womb I knew
you, before you were born I set you apart;
I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”

And

Luke 1:41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

I thank God that I am wonderfully made. That He designed and created me. That I have known others who escaped abortion, and sadly, those still living crippled lives from having an abortion. The facts on the ground to not support Ms. Ragsdale’s faulty and ill-conceived conclusion.

How can someone as a leader in a church that purports to be “of God” think the way they do? Because they are deceived. We need to pray for this woman and those she will “influence”. The hostility she shows for those who disagree with her warped view reflects the shape of her soul. May God take the scales off of her eyes and reveal His true Self to her before she causes any more damage to the souls of others, if not their very lives.

The Phoenix, eh? Nice one Chris.

Folks, have you thought about how little the pro-abortion crowd is troubled with purely arbitrary definitions of life?

It is not merely a test of whether the baby has made it through the birth canal. As I understand the Tillers and Ragsdales of this world, if you can keep any part of the baby’s head inside the birth canal, he is ripe for whacking.

Now, I am fine with arbitrary rules in games. You have to draw the line somewhere. In US football, if a field goal hits the upright and bounces through, it counts as a goal. In Australian Rules Footy, if you hit the upright and it bounces through, no goal is scored. (It could be a “behind” but that’s another story.)

To think that someone’s life may be ended without qualms or consequences based on some whimsical rule created by monsters like Ragsdale is truly frightening.

From Floridian’s extract:

Abortionists are … much more likely to commit violence than to suffer violence.

(duh) Understatement.

My brain just exploded!!!!

Dear Fenelon, Again, the ‘gay/straight’, LBGT, ‘orientation’ ‘sexual identity’ are concepts devised by the sexual agenda to propagandize the world. These are fantasy, fairy-tale terms, a whole concocted paradigm, with its own language or idiom like Tolkien’s hobbit-speak or computer talk or Klingon. It was all invented and has no basis in truth. It’s like Disney World built up out of a Florida wilderness. It ain’t real. However, a lie repeated often enough will invade the public consciousness and we have seen over decades, their propaganda has fooled a lot of people – influenced both lawmakers and church leaders – those who operate in the natural mind (which is at enmity with God) and so are devoid of spiritual discernment, wisdom and knowledge of the truth of God.

It is wrong for a Christian, to use the agenda’s propaganda terms in reference to another human being or oneself. These are not Biblical terms and are not recognized by God as exemptions to repentance or discipleship/sanctification. These concocted concepts are an attempt to excuse an exempt a disorientation of thinking and feeling and desires – in other words – plain old garden-variety SIN – the state of being disoriented, turned away from God and in rebellion against God’s truth.

Same-sex attraction is a disorientation caused by a disruption of attachment and identity formation. This misidentification usually occurs due to pain, shame, attachment traumas that engender mis-beliefs about themselves, life and other people. These shame-based beliefs (I’m different, not wanted, worthless) arise from trauma, abuse, loss, disrespect, neglect, abandonment, distance, conflict between parents, addicted or abusive parent/s or deprivation of love and respect that were sufficient to disrupt or derail the identification and attachment process with their same-sex parent. These feelings of being different or unloved may begin in earliest childhood and may occur before the development of cognitive memory (hence the feeling of being ‘born that way’ that many with identity disorders experience).

Sarah Hey explains some of this very well here: http://www.standfirminfaith.com/index.php/site/article/23050/#370389 As Sarah says, there are no exemptions to the Cross or to Galatians 5:24.

Anyone coming to Christ must crucify and learn to deny the flesh and bear the Cross. But this is not onerous because of the rewards. The benefits of dying to sin are glorious and beautiful – freedom beyond imagining. The Cross has overcome the power of sin and death. We soon learn that by comparison, no sin offers anything we really want. Nothing is worth separation from this beautiful Person, Jesus Christ, whose very being is beyond description. NOTHING the sick sinful world, flesh or devil can offer is more valuable or wonderful than communion with Christ – that comes from surrender, repentance, reconciliation, restoration. When Jesus promises abundant life, He means it.

Nothing is better than the surprisingly grace-filled life on the other side of the Cross. Nothing compares with the true riches of godly contentment. Nothing compares with the treasures in the Scripture and with the freedom that comes in obedience to God’s laws and God’s definitions of truth, love, life. Nothing compares with the power of righteousness, peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. No community can supply the joy of true communion and fellowship with God and with others who are His.

Nothing compares with the priceless thrill of true worship in the beauty of Holiness and in Spirit and in Truth. Worship is connection with God, the state in which His goodness and good gifts are imparted to us and our fallenness and brokenness are given up to Him. Like a jet being re-fueled in mid-flight, or a pit-stop or engine overhaul, where all the vehicle or engine needs is supplied and all engine waste, build-up is removed, all moving and working parts checked, cleaned, replaced, realigned, retuned.

Only God can give us the greatest riches life has to offer – because life, truth, love, goodness, freedom, peace and joy – all that we need are only found in the I AM Holy Eternal God.

In short, ‘gay’ ain’t really The Way.

I was depressed when I woke up this a.m. Now, after reading this, I am in despair for life on earth. E’en so, LORD Jesus quickly come!

Floridian,

And yet Sarah Hey remains yoked to Ragsdale, and grows impatient with suggestions that she throw the yoke off.

Ed the Roman: “And yet Sarah Hey remains yoked to Ragsdale, and grows impatient with suggestions that she throw the yoke off.”

Grows?

BTW, she’s not the only Institutionalist-Enabler of soul-destroying heresy and apostasy deliberately willing to not be unyoked from TEc. There’s Rob Eaton+, Phil Snyder, Greg Griffith+, Kendall Harmon, Jackie Bruschi, Jill Woodliff, +John Howe, Russell Levenson+, the rest of the Communion Partner clergy, the ACI’ers, et al….

Priestess Ragsdale can point to them all and say that there’s inclusive diversity in TEc and that she’s in sacramental Communion with all of them.

A couple of times this last couple of years or so, I thought the insiders were actually going to do something about ‘the problem’.

Like the Windsor bishops, the Camp Allen bishops, the AAC list of heresies presented to the Primates at Lambeth, the recent CP Bishops Statement, the ACI verrrry stern statement after the ACC/JSC farce of a meeting…now Sarah has gotten every bishop’s phone and email to do something, but, well, I’ve quit believing and even hoping to see anything SENSIBLE and ETHICAL done amongst and within the wider AC as a whole.

The rest of the summer – well, I utterly dread the shame that GC09 will bring upon the Name of Jesus Christ…with the enthusiastic assistance of RW and the connivance of KJS. Let’s see, on the program:
A live demo of a partial birth abortion of a baby sired through IVF by VGR and KJS borne by the surrogate womb of a lesbian islamic-buddist-hindu-druid-wiccan priestess.
A report on all the dollars gained from seizures of buildings, assets and furnishings from orthodox parishes.
Films selected and narrated by Spong.
A peek at the New Alternative Services Prayer Book that includes same-sex blessings, divorce, cohabitation and/or sincere but possibly temporary committment and abortion blessings.

I am looking forward to the ACNA meeting, though I am wary of Rick Warren since the inauguration and his statement about working with ‘gay’ and muslim groups in his PEACE initiatives. Warren is playing with fire – furthermore, his silence about abortion. (as are a few other ‘evangelical’ big names) This also troublesome. It is important to watch who is hanging around and playing with whom.

TU&D,

I like understatement.

Floridian,

Thanks for the long post explaining that there ain’t no such thing as a homosexual, never was, never will be. These are people with mental disorders. Simply because the disordered conned the American Psychiatric Association to removing same-sex attraction as a “diorder” in the APA DSM, does not mean that it is not a disordered mental state. You can call a “tail” a “leg” all you want to, but it still remains a tail.

This is the BIG LIE that organized perverts have foisted on a gullible and stupid media, as well as gullible and stupid politicians, idiotic ninnies in church leadership and, worst of all, judges who sit on the bench and make rulings which create “rights” out of legal smoke-and-mirrors.

Those of us who know better need to devote more time disabusing people of this BIG LIE before our entire
social structure is destroyed.

If telling the truth makes me a homophobic bigot, then so be it. Just don’t push me too hard, because I still believe that the Second Amendment is still the law of the land and I will stand by that belief.

Whitestone, the group I expected to act was a theoretical shadow group of movers-and-shakers who don’t care about theology, but don’t want to be associated with a public display. You know, the type that sit in panelled rooms and sip very good scotch and to whom the rector (sometimes the bishop) comes with hat in handI thought at some point they would pull the plug on the TEC fiasco.

However, I think I was wrong. Do these people exist in TEC anymore? I knew a few of them back in my Episcopalian days. Where are they?

FW Ken: “However, I think I was wrong.”

You thought correctly. You are wrong.

“… The abortion is a blessing.”

Any acolyte of Moloch would agree with that statement.