GABFEST
Friday, March 8th, 2013 | Uncategorized
Frustrated in his attempt to get a definitive answer to a simple question from the Obama Administration the other day, Kentucky’s US Senator Rand Paul and some of his associates engaged in a little political theater while simultaneously giving the American people something of a history lesson:
“I will speak until I can no longer speak.”
Sen. Rand Paul on Wednesday was the latest to utter such words in the chamber shortly before noon, announcing that he would begin a live, “talking filibuster” of President Barack Obama’s choice of John O. Brennan to be the next director of the CIA.
The Kentucky Republican’s unusual move to launch hours upon hours of extended speechmaking was predicated on his demand that the Obama administration affirm that it cannot carry out targeted killings of Americans on U.S. soil with drone strikes.
“I don’t rise to oppose John Brennan’s nomination simply for the person. I rise today for the principle,” Paul began. “The principle is one that as Americans we have fought long and hard for and to give up on that principle, to give up on the Bill of Rights, to give up on the Fifth Amendment protection that says that no person shall be held without due process, that no person shall be held for a capital offense without being indicted.”
As the hours went by, other senators joined him, asking Paul to yield for the ostensible purpose of asking a question. In reality, that gave Paul a brief respite from an otherwise lonely crusade. The first member to intervene was Utah Sen. Mike Lee, a tea-party-backed Republican like Paul, at the three hour and 10 minute mark. Others followed, including GOP Sens. Ted Cruz of Texas and Marco Rubio of Florida.
“Just let me give you some free advice: keep some water nearby,” Rubio quipped in a jab at himself over his own conspicuous consumption of spring water during this year’s Republican response to Obama’s State of the Union address. Rubio, who voted to advance Brennan’s nomination from the Senate Intelligence Committee on Tuesday, said he thought Paul was asking a straightforward question of the administration and deserved a clear answer.
One Democrat even joined in.
Democratic Sen. Ron Wyden of Oregon lent bipartisanship to the filibuster effort. Wyden has expressed concerns about numerous Obama administration policies on civil liberties grounds. Wyden said he would support Brennan’s confirmation but backs Paul’s underlying inquiry.
Senator Paul eventually got his answer. But if you want an illustration of why the Tea Party still matters, Rand Paul just gave you a great one, on a number of levels. Senators Paul, Lee, Cruz and Rubio were all Tea Party-backed.
For those of you who know or care about such things, #StandWithRand was the number one trending topic on Twitter for quite a while and last I checked, is still in the top ten around here. On a day when many Republican senators were off having dinner with Barack Obama, Rand Paul hijacked an entire news cycle.
And like Carlos Beltran watching Adam Wainwright’s third strike go by in the 2006 National League Championship Series, Paul totally froze the liberals. Actor John Cusack tore his hair out in frustration.
dems ? Do U have any thoughts on Obama’s transition from a progressive academic humanist 2 a regressive corporate warlord?
— John Cusack (@johncusack) March 6, 2013
And when Roger Ebert backs you…
US drones taking out our civilians without benefit of a trial? I’m with Rand Paul on this one.
— Roger Ebert (@ebertchicago) March 8, 2013
What does all this portend? What if Rand Paul wants to take a presidential run in 2016? None of this will hurt. Indeed, by the looks of things, it can’t do anything but help.
And it’s nice to know that there is a genuine Opposition in this country, of both liberals and conservatives, an Opposition that is genuinely willing to take the President on.
Because if there isn’t, this country is doomed.
UPDATE: This whole affair has taught me two more things. I have a personal presidential vote that I now greatly regret. And the reason John McCain lost in 2008 had absolutely nothing to do with Sarah Palin.
57 Comments to GABFEST
This is refreshing and encouraging. If our forefathers had taken as strong a stand against the Crown as the current Republican leadership has been taking against Obama we would be singing God Save the Queen.
March 8, 2013
Glad you just posted this, as I attended a training this morning on Suspicious Activity Reporting. The examples given were no brainers: a couple of Islamist acting people and a couple of skinhead, neo-nazi types. But talk about slippery slopes! Wear that “anti-government” T-shirt! Let it be known that you own guns! The motto your federal government is promoting now is If you see it, say it.
This “War on Terror” is getting serious, but who is making war on who?
March 8, 2013
The WSJ editorial board pointed out that the administration hadn’t actually said they would target Americans with drones on American soil — but then, they were using weasel non-denial words to avoid saying so. Paul did get an unequivocal answer after the thirteen-hour ordeal, and more importantly, he scored a public relations coup for constitutional government. I applaud Sen. Wyden, apparently the only sincere anti-war leftist the Democrats have. The rest were just anti-Bush.
This seems like a defining moment in the Republican Party. Maybe some of the RINOs will retire and we can get some more folks like Rand Paul.
March 8, 2013
Two of the best votes we’ve cast were for Ted Cruz. He’s another breath of fresh air. He didn’t blink when being dumped on during the Hagel nomination hearings. We need a House and Senate full of true Republicans.
I too found the entire spectacle not only refreshing but engaging. Imagine, it’s after midnight on the right coast and the Senate chamber is crowded with senators from both parties, the galleries were packed with spectators including many members from the other House who came over to watch not just an old fashioned filibuster but a real live debate on the floor of the Senate! There were members from both parties taking turns making mini-speeches (thinly disguised as questions) on what everyone right and left seemed to agree was an issue of great moment.
For the first time in more years than I can remember I was proud of something going on in our Congress. This is the sort of thing that should be going on more often. I seriously felt like our Senators were actually doing the job we sent them there (and pay them) to do.
March 8, 2013
Well, the Congress did pass the NDAA, which authorized the government to indefinitely detain citizens it determines are terrorists. Without trial… indefinitely.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Defense_Authorization_Act_for_Fiscal_Year_2012#section_1
March 8, 2013
I am reading that Mr. Rand may have helped the Republicans turn the corner.
March 8, 2013
Those of use who refused to support McCain in 2008 were denounced. Well, we see what happened. The Republican Party is doomed until it takes steps to show folks like McCain the door.
March 8, 2013
I don’t regret voting for McCain in 2008 any more now than I did at the time. I did it anyway because I knew Obama would be worse, but that doesn’t mean I was voting for him in the primaries.
In the primaries, you vote for the candidate you like most. In the general, you vote for the one you dislike the least. Because by the time it’s boiled down to just two choices, staying home while others go out to vote for the Really Wrong Guy is the equivalent of casting a -1 vote for the Less Wrong Guy. It’s not going to help the Really Wrong Guy get defeated.
And if you want a better candidate to get into the general election in the first place, the way to do it is to start about ten years earlier, reforming your party from the inside out. The Tea Party is now starting to get some good senators into place, but to get a good Presidential candidate from the Tea Party will probably have to wait until 2020. (2016 might happen, but I think the GOP establishment will still have too much control in 2015 when the candidates are being picked.)
Anyone think of the moment Ronald Reagan said, “Mr. speaker, I paid for this microphone!”
March 8, 2013
As usual NPR sneered at it.
Reagan stole the line from Spencer Tracy (State of the Union 1948).
March 8, 2013
Stand By Your Rand!
For thirteen delightful hours, viewers saw a patriot pointing out what the Kenyan Communist is doing to this country – and it ain’t good. I despise the half-breed muslim raised in Indonesia.
Also – I see where that senile old goat, McClain, called Rand Paul and Ted Cruz “whackos” today.
I served in Vietnam from June 6, 1969 to June 5, 1970, nine months longer than the traitor, John Kerry. McClain crashed his fifth plane and ended up in the Hanoi Hilton, where he collaborated with the North Vietnamese.
I honor his service, but he is a victim, not a hero. And in his old age, he has become senile and stupid. Plus, we now have to deal with his morbidly obese, barely above the intelligence of a mushroom daughter.
If every real conservative spent thirteen hours a week speaking the truth about the muslim from Kenya occupying the White House, we would be able to turn this around.
Query: Do you think Barry Sotero and Michelle the Mooch really like living in a place called the “WHITE” House? Inquiring minds, etc.
March 8, 2013
Robin Munn
“I don’t regret voting for McCain in 2008″
You should. Standing in sackcloth and ashes, shoeless, in the snow like the Emperor Theodosius the Great before St. Ambrose would be a good position for you.
I’m an adoptive monarchist, a political system which produced the extraordinarily great Emperors Trajan, Hadrian, Antoninus Pius and Marcus Aurelius, so I don’t vote, but if I did I might have voted for McLame just because of Sarah P.
March 8, 2013
Ad Orientem
“State of the Union” – Great movie. The speech on American and what America means by Spencer Tracy at the end of the movie should be read to every class in every school in this country.
March 8, 2013
Robin Munn–I think that was all very well put. Also, stuck here in a going-purple (I fear) county (mixed farm and lakes country; people move up here from Indy or Ft. Wayne and then all too many want to turn us into Indy or Ft. Wayne) in a generally very red state, I appreciate reminders of the broader picture!
March 8, 2013
P.S.– Surgical clamps. They hold our noses more tightly shut than do clothespins, for the meanwhile.
Don
Your first comment is racist and despicable. That sort of thing is what liberals go looking for so they can tar us all as lunatic bigots. And it most certainly DOES NOT REPRESENT my understanding of constitutional conservatism. Go crawl back into whatever cave you emerged from.
March 8, 2013
Just dropped by to read the kind words for the Obama administration due to the new jobs numbers, the comeback of the housing industry, the arrest of Bin Laden’s son-in law, the Stock market’s incredible new high. But no, nothing just stupid paranoid rantings about Kenyan Communists.
March 8, 2013
Don wrote, above:
“You should. Standing in sackcloth and ashes, shoeless, in the snow like the Emperor Theodosius the Great before St. Ambrose would be a good position for you”
while on the previous thread, he wrote:
“Thought I should point out your misunderstanding of the Queen’s English. Sorta makes you look kinda stupid, doesn’t it?”
Someone who can so palpably, and amusingly, confuse St. Ambrose’s repelling Theodosius I from the altar with St. Gregory VII making Henry IV stand in the snow outside Canossa some seven hundred years (less four or five) later ought to be a bit more careful with his animadversions, I think.
March 8, 2013
Nice to see you haven’t changed, John. One nut job is all you can see. Of course that fits your small, narrow purposes, so why bother listening. Bigot.
Now run along, the grown-ups are talking.
Ken
Thanks. You beat me to it.
I’m still out of work, John. Find me a job and I might be able to agree with you.
March 8, 2013
Ad Orientem
Racist? I made no mention of race. “Kenyan” is not racist and Obama told his first publisher that he was born in Kenya. “Communist” is not racist. Mao, Lenin and Castro are not of the same race. “Half-breed” is not racist. Obama had a white mother and a black father, so he is half and half. And “muslim” is not racist. So, your accusation is without merit and highly ignorant.
William Tighe:
” So what did Emperor Theodosius do?He went to the Cathedral of Milan and brought his whole entourage. Ambrose agreed to meet him there. The emperor walked into the door of the Cathedral and shed all his royal robes and insignia and bowed down in public penance. One year later in 391 he personally went to Thessolonica and asked forgiveness.
Your ignorance of history is appalling. As are your accusations. I am much more highly read in history and much more educated than you are. However, I will forgive your egregious comments on the basis that they are from one who does not know what he is talking about. Get a doctorate, as I have, and then we will talk. Until then, you are wasting time for both of us.
Too bad there are posters on this site who think accusations of racism and mistakes of history will have an effect on me. I am old, self-satisfied, have had a great life, have four wonderful children and I don’t give a damn what Ad Orientem or William Tighe have to say about me. Water off a duck’s back, as they say.
March 9, 2013
Mr. Janousek, I really want to go have a beer with you some day.
March 9, 2013
Carolyn P
I only drink fine wines, especially those from Georgia, Chile and Australia.
But, I did have a girlfriend in high school named Carolyn.
So, if our paths should ever cross, I would very much enjoy an evening of, oh, let’s say, a reserved Carmenere for Chile, candle, crystal and intelligent conversation with you.
And we can chuckle about Ad Orientem, an OCA person, and William Tighe, as we sip and enjoy the evening.
Dress will be formal. I bow and kiss your hand for your comment.
March 9, 2013
I wore a nose clamp while voting AGAINST Obama in 2008. My vote was not a FOR vote, it was an AGAINST vote in 2008, just as it was in 2012.
I only vote GOP because they have the only legitimate chance of stopping the Liberal zombies. Not that I really care for or support socially liberal, fiscal conservatives.
I support socially conservative, fiscally conservative, national security conservative political leaders.
The ECUSA analog to the GOP elite are the Communion Partners or the Anglican Communion Institute or any Piskie who supports WO.
As far I’m concerned, if you support WO, then you’re not a true theological conservative. In parallel, if you support pro-choice and/or support gay marriage, then you’re not a true political conservative.
PBess Schori – Scorched Earth policy. Obama – Scorched Earth policy. Same, same.
American Curmudgeon.
P.S. Don Janousek, I’ve enjoyed many of your comments in prior threads. Lot of them LOL. But you’re way off-base with Professor William Tighe. He has a doctorate in history from Oxford, with a particular emphasis on the Reformation. Conservative lawyers should take a great liking to conservative history professors. We’re all working together here. Pax.
March 9, 2013
TUAD
Tighe has a doctorate from Oxford? A socialit, post-Christian school in a socialist post-Christian, soon-to-be muslim majority country and I should be impressed? Why?
And, “emphasis on the Reformation?” Do you mean the segments of society that revolted from Rome and are now dying, e.g. the Episcopal Church, among others?
I am Russian Orthodox. We had no “reformation” and are still practicing Christianity.
And even if this Tighe fellow has a doctorate from a school in England, his statements re Ambrose and Theodosius were false.
But, he apparently is an academic, so “false statements” would be part of his job.
Don’t challenge me on history – neither you nor Tighe will win that battle.
March 9, 2013
TUAD
Bull.
And this site ate my most recent comments.
I guess falsifiers now control this site.
March 9, 2013
Professor William Tighe. He has a doctorate in history from Oxford, with a particular emphasis on the Reformation. Conservative lawyers should take a great liking to conservative history professors.
Gee, TUAD, I am so impressed. Academic credentials are such a great indicator on knowledge and wisdom.
Oh, woe is me for having challenged such a great person. And one who has a degree from some school in a socialist country which will soon be muslim. And with emphasis on the reformation – the revolt from Christianity by northern Europe which is now dying.
Oh what will I ever do. I am sooooo chagrined.
Lord, have mercy! Mea culpa, mea culpa, mea maxima culpa!
March 9, 2013
Seriously Don. William Tighe is a Reformation history professor. He’s a conservative Byzantine Catholic which has deep sympathies with your Eastern Orthodoxy.
Lay down swords and work together as co-belligerents against the take-no-prisoner Liberal zombies.
March 9, 2013
TUAD
This fellow is a “Byzantine Catholic?”
In other words, he is a Catholic who is also a word, Byzantine,” made up from thin air by British historians in the 1890′s? Hard to grasp.
I have no truck with “reformation” theologians. If I recall, Calvin believed in predestination and Luther hated Jews. So, someone who has degrees in these areas should be “listened to?”
I appreciate your efforts, TUAD, but I was called a racist and someone who is ignorant of history. As I am not a racist nor am I ignorant of history, I find these comments appalling.
At least Carolyn P. wants to get drunk with me. Neither Ad Orientem, an OCA Orthodox, nor Tighe, have volunteered to do the same.
And I’ll be Carolyn P. is hot.
March 9, 2013
Don -
You misquoted me, thereby miscontruing my point. I said I didn’t regret voting for McCain now ANY MORE than I did back then: I was holding my nose at the time, but I still feel that as bad as he would have been, McCain would have been preferable to what we actually got. Do you dispute that? If you don’t (and given that you seem to despise Obama even more than I do), then why jump on me?
If your misquoting was deliberate, then an apology is in order. If it was accidental, then no harm done, just read a little more carefully next time.
“And the reason John McCain lost in 2008 had absolutely nothing to do with Sarah Palin.”
In 2008 my wife and I voted for McCain only in order to vote for Palin. Any Republican would have lost in 2008 after the economic melt down, but McCain with his eagerness to suspend his campaign and his desire apparently to win the title of Miss Congeniality, threw any chance he had away. McCain has always been tough on his fellow Republicans and soft on Democrats. In 2010 he won a tough primary race by running as a born again conservative and promptly went back to his old ways after he was safely back in for another six years. I honor the courage McCain showed in the Hanoi Hilton, but that is the only honorable thing about the man.
March 9, 2013
Don, “half-breed” is considered by the vast majority of American speakers to be a racist term, even if you don’t think so. I take Dr. Tighe’s statements of fact about the history of any period as authoritative. Church history is a particular passion of his. I respectfully differ with him on many points of interpretation and theology, but facts, no.
Byzantine Catholics are a legitimate Roman church, like the Maronites in Lebanon, for instance, and I believe Dr. Tighe belongs to it as a consequence of his ethnic heritage, from eastern Europe. I am surprised that, with your own ethnic connections, you don’t have respect for them.
March 9, 2013
Christopher, You forgot to mention that, Ron Johnson, Wisconsin’s own Tea Party backed senator also came to the chamber and gave Rand Paul a break near the end of the filibuster. Sen. Johnson had been at the dinner with Obama and was, I believe, the only dinner attendee who came to the floor after the dinner with Obama.
I used to be well disposed towards both McCain and Graham (although I voted 3rd party in the ’08 prez election to make a statement). But now they are part of the enemy.
I can hardly wait to cut a check or two to Graham’s GOP primary opponent in ’14.
March 9, 2013
John – your President has retained and expanded the ‘right’ to execute without trial American citizens overseas.
Now there’s the idea that – of course we’d never do it! but still – those powers include or could be expanded to include the power to execute American citizens without trial on American soil (that is, within the borders of the United States itself).
Are you seriously not one bit concerned at all about this? Do you really swallow the notion that okay, it’s only Bad Guys (presumably wearing black hats or turbans) who get killed Out Foreign, and as long as the administration has its Top Men making those secret lists, it doesn’t matter to the average man in the street? Really?
Hi, John!
I had been worried about you, but I see I should not have been. Still as vacuous as ever, I see.
While I am not a “hottie” as is Carolyn P, I would enjoy sharing some adult beverages and adult conversation with Mr. Janousek!
Pace, to all!
Senator Graham, is, unfortunately, from my state. I haven’t a clue how he became infected by RINO’ism, but there it is.
Hoping someone with real conservative cred opposes him in the next primary. They will get my vote.
Why should anyone repent for voting for the lesser of two evils? That’s all politics is, until Jesus runs for office. The very idea is arrogant nonsense. We play the cards we are dealt the best we can, even if they are a pair of deuces. We don’t fold and whine about the game.
March 9, 2013
Agreed, Christopher Hathaway.
March 9, 2013
FW Ken, the conclave won’t actually begin until 4:30 p.m. Rome time on Tuesday. Black or white smoke can be expected between 5-7 p.m. evenings and 11 a.m.-noon on following days. So you don’t even need to check until your lunch hour on Tuesday, and then morning and noon thereafter.
March 9, 2013
Since our old friend John has been here, I hope he may drop in again and look at this totally off topic video. It’s posted at Watts Up With That, not a site he often agrees with, but the video is fascinating and offers an intriguing and exciting answer to how to stop the earth from turning to desert and how to feed increasing populations. It is proposed by an ecologist, one of John’s camp, one would think, but an innovative and effective idea should be embraced by ALL camps. Seriously, the video is 22 minutes long, not technical, and, I thought, very exciting.
March 9, 2013
Fuinseoig. I never wrote of the Obama’s administrations ‘right’ to kill Americans overseas. While the targets did not get a formal trial they were investigated and deemed guilty of crimes against America and an on going threat to our security. What would you have us do?
Allen Lewis. While I do not agree with your assessment of my comments, I would prefer that to all the self-aggrandizement I read from you and others on this site.
March 9, 2013
John Judge Dredd is coming to America. The darn courts are just such a burden on society and that pesky Constitution.
March 9, 2013
I guess what concerns me is that there is even the idea of killing Americans on American soil without due process for being suspected terrorists. If there is that kind of evidence to support killing them why not arrest them? My feeling is that somewhere there has been a finely worded ambiguity that allowed Obama/Holder to say no in that letter. I would be willing to bet that we will see drones in action on American soil against Americans. After all, in order to serve as a general under Obama he required/requires them to be willing to fire on American citizens. That says it all to me.
March 9, 2013
As far as the jobs report goes how many people who are under employed and unemployed who were not on the rolls for unemployment are still out there looking for work, and can’t find it? And I can honestly tell you that I have two relatives who are being sequestered and they aren’t happy about losing 20% of their salary while one boss says don’t go overboard trying to cover for the lost time (No overtime, loss time nor comp time are approved) and another boss says our mission is critical get it done anyway. That 20% of lost salary also interferes with pensions, 401(k), vacation time, etc. Has anybody comprehended but that 20% also falls within the people who pay out governmental money?
It’s all about chaos. And trying to make Republicans look bad for an idea that came from Obama himself. So improved job report when you have over, what, 2 million employees who may be looking for a new job, which ends up leaving a weakened military and government, and you think this is a good thing, John? Please, go back out to the playground. You haven’t become an adult if you don’t comprehend the consequences of this stupidity.
Additionally, what about the collateral damage? What is the going rate for reparations for loss of innocent life? How many innocents abroad have been killed? How much money has been paid under the table? The final question is whether the policy of drone killings (actually assassinations)has created more terrorists than the drones have eliminated.
March 9, 2013
I absorbed a 2% loss in take home on January 1st. My state agency has absorbed a 3% cut twice in the past 6 years. The chaos over a half percent reduction in the rate of growth is manufactured by the president.
One cannot help but wonder if John would be so sanguine about a president killing citizens without due process if the president were named Bush.
March 9, 2013
FW Ken, it’s not just you. Most people on wages or salary lost 2% from Jan. 1 with the return to previous Social Security tax rates. They’re living with it. A government which can’t manage a 2% reduction in the rate of spending is an utterly incompetent one.
And, exactly, with reference to how it was horrible for Bush to be killing bad guys overseas, but now that Obama is doing the same thing, only more so, John and other like him don’t have a thing to say about it. As I said above, Sen. Wyden turned out to be the only honest Democrat in the Senate.
March 9, 2013
“While the targets did not get a formal trial they were investigated and deemed guilty of crimes against America and an on going threat to our security.”
Well, that makes me feel so much better, John. They were investigated and found guilty. Granted, it wasn’t the judiciary who did the investigation, and nobody can be told the grounds on which they were found guilty, but it’s not like some impoverished goatherder would give false information about the location of a high-level Al Quaeda leader for the reward money, now is it?
March 9, 2013
The Massacre at Thessalonika was in April, and the news did in fact get to Milan before winter. By a lot. Nor was it one of those years when it snows in Rome in August.
March 9, 2013
True enough, Suburbanbanshee, and so it is silly to write of Theodosius as “Standing in sackcloth and ashes, shoeless, in the snow like the Emperor Theodosius the Great before St. Ambrose.” But Mr. Janousek seems to have forgotten the snow in his attempt to justify his snow job. But I am at fault for failing to have called to mind Proverbs 26:4.
And my doctorate is not from King Alfred’s new university, but from “the other place,” founded, as legend has it, by Coel Codoveg himself!
March 10, 2013
John:
While the targets did not get a formal trial they were investigated and deemed guilty of crimes against America and an on going threat to our security. What would you have us do?
I’d give the Devil the benefit of law, for my own safety’s sake.
March 10, 2013
Mr. Janousek,
I also only drink fine wines. From Little Elm. Specifically, the Wal-Mart in Little Elm. The wine comes in a box, but most assuredly makes me feel fine.
And yes, I am definitely a hottie. Relatively speaking.
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March 8, 2013