He’s right. This stopped being about what happened in Newtown fairly soon after the vent. Anti-gun activists didn’t take long at all to recognize the opportunity this presented them.

Crime in Milwaukee County WI. does not even begin to compare with Cook County Ill. Yet the Sheriff of Milwaukee has encouraged residents to get firearms training. http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/crime/item/14364-milwaukee-county-sheriff-advises-residents-to-get-gun-training
I lived in a rural area in S.E. Wisconsin for 24 years. The County sheriff was a long distance phone call. Most of my neighbors and I had guns and simply didn’t depend on law enforcement to be there in time.

My neighbor called 911 a few years ago. It took twenty minutes for a sheriff’s deputy to arrive. We have a security system — and a shotgun.

He is absolutely right-especially about some of our fellow Catholics. When I first had my reversion, I couldn’t imagine why everyone who wasn’t Catholic just did jump on the Holy Bandwagon. After dealing with real life Catholics, especially the self-anointed neo-con and braindead “orthodox”, I am no longer surprised and have become a whole lot more charitable and understanding of my non-Catholic brethren.

The ’60s and the aftermath of Vatican II was a horrible time for the Church. It is like Holy Mother Church woke up and decided to commit intellectual suicide. Not officially, of course, but so many of the self-proclaimed “orthodox” are seemingly incapable of the depth of intellection that was common at one time in Catholic circles. Guns are the problem? Holy. Crap. Did all these neo-cons actually say stuff like this? Of course, it might help if they knew a barrel from their ass, but that is another question.

I thank God for the sanity of my Traditionalist (FSSP) parish. Some folks might have their quirks, but they don’t think guns are gifts from Satan and their orthodoxy extends to more than regurgitation of CCC passages.

Foe the sake of the children: Read into the Second amendment a different meaning to the actual words used to deprive the American citizen of the universal right to bear arms while at the same time, when there are no words whatsoever, read into the “umbra of the penumbra” of constitutional interpretation a universal and untrammeled constitutional right to kill unborn children. About 55 million in the last 40 years. All hail the progressive leftist moral and intellectual integrity!!!

I lived in a rural area in S.E. Wisconsin for 24 years. The County sheriff was a long distance phone call. Most of my neighbors and I had guns and simply didn’t depend on law enforcement to be there in time.

We live in the city of Milwaukee proper. Sheriff Clarke is the only Democrat I’ve voted for in an election (and I fully expect his affiliation with that party to be revoked). What he said was true. When our apartment was robbed and our car stolen several years ago, it took the police *4 hours* to show up while I sat outside on a chilly autumn day twiddling my thumbs. They never caught the perps.

I have called 911 and had the phone ring many times before someone picks up. Calls are prioritized. If I call and say I think someone’s creeping around my yard, they won’t put me as high on the list as if I call and say someone’s got a gun on the street.

Clarke’s statement is absolutely true. But since it goes against the prevailing mentality of liberals (that we can’t feed/clothe/house ourselves without government assistance), he’s catching hell from various Milwaukee liberals.

But Dale’s blog is correct. Those of us who own guns for self-defense or a hobby have been nothing but demonized and painted as child killers in this debate. Really hard to argue with such unhinged rhetoric.

I had this argument with the same self-satisfied Catholic intellectual poseur a few years ago when this same issue came up. I had been a regular commenter at his blog, and when the proprietor professed to be unable to understand the argument being made by gun rights defenders, I attempted to explain the argument to him. I didn’t even defend the argument, just translated what what being said into small words, easy to understand.

Rather than try to understand the argument, He threw a shrieking fit, accused me of advocating the murder of American Heroes ™ and promptly banned me from his blog. I haven’t been back.

The fellow proved literally incapable of imagining a scenario in which any American would need to defend himself against the government. For a theoretically Irish man, he seems awfully subservient.

Don’t get me wrong. He is very sincerely Catholic, and genuinely Christian, and generally a careful thinker. It’s just that some things are so far outside his ken that he panics when he thinks about them.

Our parish recently began using the St Michael prayer:

St. Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the Devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray,
and do thou,
O Prince of the heavenly hosts,
by the power of God,
thrust into hell Satan,
and all the evil spirits,
who prowl about the world
seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.

Dale Price’s thoughts, whether posts on his own blog or comments on other folks’ blogs, are always worth the time to read. I really appreciate his clarity of thought and ability to cut through a lot of the BS to get to the heart of an issue.

Stephen, I don’t think I know which blogger you mean. Shea and are are not on the same page about this issue, but he doesn’t seem to fit the bill: he linked to Dale’s piece, for one thing.

dominic1955, thanks for the generosity which allows you to see that a barrier to conversion for some of us is the local parishes which are available.

My only disagreement with Mr. Price is his assumption that Mark Shea is arguing in good faith.

“he linked to Dale’s piece, for one thing.”

Big deal. This is his typical MO; once the criticism gets hot, he falls back on phony self-deprecation and faux-Chestertonian bluffness. Meanwhile, his comments further on in the dialogue box just reiterate his “I was right all along” attitude. C.S. Lewis spotted this type: He pays a penny’s worth of humility for a pound’s worth of self-righteousness. I actively avoid Shea’s site now, and actually had to remove John C. Wright’s blog from my bookmarks because he keeps linking to Little Green Catholics.

“It has been aided and abetted for political ends by the Left, and gladly directed toward a convenient, culture-war scapegoat despised by the same and easily-demonized. Bitter clingers, anyone?” My only quarrel with Dale Price is that he seems to be putting himself in the victim role. I’m not sure gun owners or Christians belong there. Christian ‘victims’ are more properly known as martyrs. My blog article offered suggestions to the NRA to ease up on the strident “No” and be a part of the solution.

“Little Green Catholics.”

?

Excellent commentary, Dale!

Ed the Roman: Perhaps it’s all to the good you didn’t recognize my reference to Charles Johnson’s blog Little Green Footballs. I detect similar tendencies chez Shea – hair-trigger anathematizing, jaunty ridicule of objectors and a trend to sycophancy among the regulars.

“Little Green Catholics!”

Thanks for the laugh, Dr. M.

Dale, that is an excellent piece. I joined one conversation post Sandy Hook regarding guns on Shea’s site. I quickly concluded that calm, rational and factual discussion was not being sought by mine host.

Dale Matson,

The reason that the NRA shouldn’t “ease up” it is insanity trying compromising with liberals. There is no discussion, no reasoning with liberals. They will not stop. You think a 10 round limit (The Second Amendment ain’t about hunting anyways, Vicar…) will satiate their lust for control? I suppose if you are the type of person who would have thought giving Czechoslovakia to Hitler was a good idea, then it does make sense.

Ed the Roman: Perhaps it’s all to the good you didn’t recognize my reference to Charles Johnson’s blog Little Green Footballs.

I don’t know what triggered it, but Johnson went “round the bend” in grand fashion. Very sad, really.

My blog article offered suggestions to the NRA to ease up on the strident “No” and be a part of the solution.

Because the NRA knows whatever part of the solution they are, it won’t be enough to satiate the left’s desire for control. If I’ve learned anything with liberals, it’s that when you compromise an inch, they’ll take a mile. Then call you a bully for getting upset or opposing them.

I found Mark’s comments re: gun control rather hurtful. My gun sits in a safe, locked and unloaded. It’s only meant to be used if I feel my life or the life of someone in my family is endangered. The notion that if I don’t have a “biometric” gun (which may or may not work properly when I most need it) somehow means I’m a gun nut or that I am okay with evil loons killing innocent ppl, is offensive and childish.

I will never understand why law-abiding, decent citizens are always punished for the bad choices and irresponsible behavior of others.

Because good people squirm and try to make you understand better, whereas bad people beat you up and take your money and your life.

Threatening good people is clearly where the percentages are.

One blog I follow had the very conservative proprietor asking why 2nd Amendment supporters weren’t working together with the Left for some gun control measures. After about two days he realized why. The “we need common sense gun control” crowd kept letting slip how they wanted to eventually ban guns, kept proprosing regulations that did not address Sandy Hook, and showed no willingness to discuss the issue.

The latest fun is the legislative proposal for universal background checks. Now the NRA has always supported background checks. The issue has been gun registration. Not surprisingly the new legislation includes a requirment for gun registration. You can’t have a discussion when the other side is always lying and demonizing you.

dominic 1955
“I suppose if you are the type of person who would have thought giving Czechoslovakia to Hitler was a good idea, then it does make sense.” I don’t know how you got there from my comments. I am not a collaborator and to imply that I am means you know nothing about me.

I feel about the leftist anti-gun crowd as I do about the leftist immigration “reform” crowd. They are not sincere about the actual points of compromise required. This gun control debate has made that very clear. I don’t trust them.

“Little Green Footballs.”

I did get that reference, I still hadn’t figured out that people were talking about Mark.

Katherine,
“I don’t trust them.” ‘Trust but verify’(Ronald Reagan)
As I reflect more on the comments to me by dominic 1955, I realize that I am as much a hard liner on the church and doctrine as he is on guns. I think about the ‘indaba’ process and how dangerous it was/is to even listen. The constitution and bill of rights is to democracy what the councils, Scripture and creeds are to the church.

There is an argument for biometrics, and I am not yet convinced by it.

Guns get taken away. Your own gun can be used against you if you are sufficiently pressed for time by an assailant.

THe non-argument is that guns get stolen: once I steal it, I go home and rip all that biometric shit out. It’s like someone who wasn’t concerned about the Pak nukes because we hadn’t given them F16s with the nuclear arming circuitry until I pointed out that the Paks weren’t going to build their nukes that way.

Dale, it wasn’t clear to me that dominic1955 meant he thought you, personally, would have behaved like Chamberlain with the Nazis. He’d have to tell you that. But I think his idea is that there is no compromising with people who are not honest about their intentions. In ECUSA, we compromised and were “nice” with the liberals. Then when they took over the mask came off and they eschew compromise and decent treatment for us.

Thanks, everyone! And thanks kindly for the link, Chris my brother.

I was consciously trying to avoid claiming victimhood status, and I’m disappointed I came off that way. It was the opposite of my intent.

Dale Matson,

Katherine is correct, I’m not saying you are a collaborator or a Chamberlain but rather that there is no sane compromise with anti-gunners. They may say they want “reasonable” restrictions etc. etc. but history proves those are lies or the falsehoods trumpeted by useful idiots who think their handlers will stop at the “reasonable” restrictions.

No, when they say 10 rounds max, I say buy a 75 round drum and then push the fight all the way to the point at which they are on their knees amid the burning ruins of their ideology-and then dump the drum into them.

I’m not saying lets go vigilante and kill people, what I’m saying is that there is no reasoning with these people. We have to do what we can to impede every single thing they propose. Leftist progressives are not honorable like we tend to be, thus there will be no peace until they are utterly destroyed and since there will be no societal perfection until the end, we need to take the fight to them for every single little thing they do.

I didn’t think you came off like a victim at all, Dale. I own exactly one gun (a rusty shotgun I inherited from my old man because nobody else in the family wanted it and that probably hasn’t been fired since before you were born, big man) so in this particular area, I defer to people who know what they’re talking about.

Amy P, and others,

My carry piece is on my belt or in my coat pocket except when I am in bed, at which time it resides on the floor beside my pillow ( my mattress is on the floor in a keeping loft). I have carried since 1961, as a pastor, fire/police chaplain and for several years as a proud wearer of the blue, on the job in several states.

I am neither proud nor ashamed of doing so…perhaps I am a kook, huh