Wow, she’s been watching MSNBC a bit too much.

Yes, they do hate you.

I’m simply stunned she’d drop the mask like that. No soft platitudes about Anglican comprehensiveness. If you side with Bishop Lawrence, you’re pretty much a child killer.

Just wow.

“High Editorial Praise!! to the first person who can tell the Editor what Mrs. Schori left out.”

To abstain from immorality. Mrs. Schori probably couldn’t figure out what that “really” meant, and so chose to ignore it.

Judges? No, can’t give it to you, Prof. You left out an important adjective.

“to abstain from sexual immorality…”

High Editorial Praise!! to MargaretC

“Power assumed by one authority figure alone is often a recipe for abuse, tyranny, and corruption. ” Pot meet kettle.

Ironically, it is also the Feast Day, in the Orthodox Church, of the New Martyrs of Russia. These are the victims of the Communists. They stand for what happens when Mrs. Schori’s team wins. Of course given her history we know she hates the Russian Orthodox too.
St. Elizabeth the New Martyr, pray to God for us.

I’m not sure Schori would understand what the phrase “sexual immorality” means.

So a group is always right whereas an individual is wrong.Oh those nuisance martyrs of the early Church. No possibility of a group being manipulated by one individual then? Good bye the “fuhrerprinzip” of the Nazis, or the Secretary of the Party for the Comintern. They got rid of all their enemies on the grounds that the latter arrogated for themselves to the right to dispute/oppose the “group” decisions and thus were automatically guilty of “splittism”.

My one-and-only (attempted) comment on ENS didn’t get past the censor so I’ll give it a try here:

January 27, 2013 at 8:34 am

‘“Somebody decides he knows the law and oversteps whatever authority he may have to dictate the fate of others who may in fact be obeying the law – and often a law for which this local tyrant is not the judge,” she said.’

Webster – Tyrant: ‘an absolute ruler unrestrained by law or constitution, [one] who exercises absolute power oppressively or brutally [and] an oppressive ruler in the harsh use of authority or power.’

Bishop Lawrence and the standing committee have acted according to, and entirely within, the Constitution and Canons of the Episcopal Diocese and the civil corporation laws of South Carolina. The person making the comments in the referenced quote above habitually acts without the Constitution and Canons of The PECUSA; makes up the rules as she sees fit.

Therefore, who is the tyrant?

“Most of us don’t live in a world where one person is the ultimate Decider”

- said the Presiding Bishop, Metropolitan of the National Cathedral, Primate of All The Americas, Archbishop of Europe, and Pastor-in-Chief to “the Episcopal Church’s 2.4 million members in 16 countries and 110 dioceses”.

I got that bit about the chief pastor to 16 countries from TEC’s website, where today they have a quote from St. Thomas Aquinas on the home page.

(1) What the hey, TEC, he’s just ‘Thomas Aquinas’ to you (presumably because you don’t believe in that “Saint” title thing as too exclusive) even though you’re perfectly happy to bestow sainthood on people nobody outside of America has ever heard of? (Who is Thurgood Marshall and why should I care?)

(2) You’re quoting St. Thomas Aquinas? Do you want me to declare war on you or what?

I must apologize for my comment as it was not meant to speak ill of Bishop Lawrence. I beg forgiveness.

There is nothing new about people ignoring facts and using their own desires to decide right and wrong. However, we are going through a period where it is widespread in both the secular and religious world. Historically, this does not end well.

I once read somewhere that the collective IQ of a mob is inversely proportional to the number of people in it.

So Madame Jefferts Schori is advocating mob rule. I know she tossed a sop to “…appropriate checks and balances…,” but since she, herself, likes to ignore the Episcopal Church Constitution and Canons when they get in her way, I can’t say that I believe she really means that.

Yes, the TECites always seem to leave out the part about sexual immorality when they discuss Acts 15. They also forget to mention that it was a compromise agreement, something they do not seem too conversant in these days. It’s their way of the highway.

Her first paragraph doesn’t even make any sense. Who is trying to arm school children? Some have proposed allowing responsible licensed adults to carry weapons in schools, but I have seen no proposals anywhere to arm underage students. And what logical or even illogical connection exists between Bishop Lawrence and school shooters or fanatic Muslim terrorists? The former are, for the most part, mentally deranged, and the latter adhere to a barbaric desert creed antithetical to Bishop Lawrence’s religion. The woman has gone completely around the bend.

As for the “tyrant” charge, the old school sneer, “It takes one to know one,” applies.

Tried to post this at ENS. We’ll see if it goes.

“The implicit comparison of Bishop Lawrence with mentally deranged school shooters and fanatic Muslim terrorists is irrational, and her claim that people are proposing to arm school children is bizarre. One wonders what world she lives in. And to call her opponent a “petty Decider” when it was she who uncanonically declared that Lawrence had “renounced his orders” when he didn’t do any such thing is also very strange. One does not initiate “reconciliation” with a sermon demonizing one’s opponents.”

I don’t believe it. They actually published my comment on ENS after almost 24 hours. Most of the comments support +Lawrence and the Diocese.

The Tyrant Speech

And, at ENS, the first comment, which calls this sermon “brilliant,” is from that well-know theologian Fr. Albert Cutié. He would have his own reasons for ignoring the passage on “sexual immorality.”

“Spongianity”

That’s gold Jerry! Gold!

Forgetting for a moment that this is a misrepresentation of the facts, “When you meet them out there in the pasture, consider that some of the sheep may think they’re listening to the voice of the Good Shepherd. Some are also simply exhausted.” What about the obvious Christian response? “Forgive them for they know not what they do.”

Well I know my comments won’t be approved but I am sure the moderator will know how I feel.

I’m not sure Schori would understand what the phrase “sexual immorality” means.

Oh, she knows it’s a common category mistake among mental defectives.

But, but I thought The Episcopal Church Welcomes You.

http://wannabeanglican.blogspot.com/2013/01/the-episcopal-church-swelcomess-hates.html

As a member of the Diocese of South Carolina, under the godly and humble leadership of The Rt Rev Mark Lawrence, I am deeply offended by the presiding bishop comparing my mentality to that of the school shooter or a homicidal terrorist. The fact that she would think, much less utter in public, such a thing any time, much less little more than a month after the shooting at Sandy Hook, is absolutely unconscionable. I assume, since a transcript of her “sermon” was provided, that these were prepared words, not something blurted out in the heat of the moment (which would be bad enough in someone invested with a leadership role), demonstrates that this woman is nothing less than a petty, vindictive, hateful soul. And where is her pet notion of “inclusiveness,” which she slips on and off with the same ease as that ridiculous pastel mitre, when she compares us orthodox South Carolina Anglicans to wolves in sheep’s clothing?

Amen Bryan, and thanks for standing with the faithful in your diocese. Jesus says to you as he said to his disciples: “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.”

Christopher, I know that you speak your words to those of who are called by God to remain where we are in TEC as a warning – yelling fire in a building that is becoming embers as you yell. Yelling fire is what we’re trying to do even among our leadership who have their hearing aids turned off, some with their fingers stuck in their ears yelling “I can’t hear you, I can’t hear you!”. And that’s true of some of the younger priests as well.

I don’t know how everything will play out exactly, but it’s coming. The Presiding Bishop is coming to the diocese of Central Florida and will be visiting several churches according to our new bishop Greg Brewer. Apparently those new Title IV revisions made it law that we now have to allow the Presiding Bishop in the diocese, where before we were able to hold her off. So the “oasis” of Central Florida has already officially ended. I fully expect the same circumstances of South Carolina to take place in Central Florida. So it will be rather interesting to see what happens in the next few months. The only way to prevent a faux diocese takeover would be to surrender in some form – which evening allowing the PB to come into the diocese feels like a surrender already.

So, yeah, know what’s coming down the pike. But in the meantime we are still spreading Christ around us, sounding the alarm as we can, and still, apparently, ticking people off in doing it…. Doing the work that we’ve already been doing.

This is why every time I start hearing the homosexuality / sexual immorality apologists, I simply say Acts 15. Of course, these instant Bible authorities have never actually read the Scriptures, just the homosexual cult talking points, so they just stare at me. And I just say read Acts 15, it has the answer to all your arguments in it.

Oh, the Spongians might keep a tame orthodox parish or two around, as curious exhibits in their diversity zoo–rather like a lungfish or platypus.

But they’ll have to keep their mouths shut and the money flowing. Needless to say, you can forget about ever seeing another Christian bishop.

Count me in as one who would be honored to be labeled by the head of the Spongian Church as a “petty Decider or wolf who masquerade as sheep.”

One of my Facebook foes linked to her sermon and boasted, “The sermon truly embodies Christ’s commandment – Love your neighbors as yourself!”

This wolf is howling over that spongmastic comment.

Lakeland Two.

I am saddened to hear that the PB is heading to Central Florida. So much for being inclusive and tolerating those with diverse viewpoints. This woman is truly on a death march for the Episcopal Church. WOW! I hope she enjoys being the PB of a dead, useless entity. I know God’s grace and love will continue in Central Florida even if she tries kill another diocese.

There’s an orthodox parish in the ECUSA diocese here, my former parish. It stays orthodox, barely, by paying the jizya, that is, the hefty diocesan assessment, and by accepting a procession of assistants to the rector nominated by the bishop. Theses assistants are often distinctly heretical. But not only will this diocese never see another Christian bishop, but my former parish will never see another Christian rector, and it’s not clear that the current one will survive the new Title IV canons. Or perhaps someday he’ll just get tired of the fight.

The Lakeland Two, did your diocesan bishop extend and invitation to the PB? Of course she’s free to visit any church in an unofficial capacity, but my understanding of church polity has always been that the PB cannot visit a local diocese in an official unless formally invited to do so by the diocesan.

I freshly feel your pain. I was one of those who thought I’d hold out to the bitter end in TEC as a voice in the wilderness, but the PB took care of that for me when she illegally inhibited Mark Lawrence. We all thought that if we maintained our composure and kept our heads down and our noses clean that the PB would tolerate us and leave us space to follow our conscience and practice our faith in TEC. That was proven to be a mirage last October when she illegally deposed Mark Lawrence. It then became clear that to orthodox Christians the old TEC mantra had been revised: “The Episcopal Church DOES NOT Welcome You!” You remain in my prayers as you continue to fight the good fight as long as you can. But I will offer you this: as much as I dreaded the thought of walking apart from TEC–an organization my family helped establish–once it did happen it was like walking into the clear light of the day and breathing the clean air. I am, however, at peace that I hung on as long as I possibly could.

I find it helpful in pondering all this to recall the words of the Magnificat. Mary speaks of the in-breaking of Kingdom of God in the present tense. There is great comfort in this.

My soul doth magnify the Lord and my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.
For he hath regarded the lowliness of his handmaiden.
For behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.
For he that is mighty hath magnified me and holy is his Name.
And his mercy is on them that fear him throughout all generations.
He hath shewed strength with his arm he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.
He hath put down the mighty from their seat and hath exalted the humble and meek.
He hath filled the hungry with good things and the rich he hath sent empty away.
He remembering his mercy hath holpen his servant Israel as he promised to our forefathers, Abraham and his seed for ever.

Glory Be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost;
As it was in the beginning, is now, and ever shall be, world without end. Amen.

Bryan,

Thank you for Mary’s praise, and thank you for a proper translation!

I liked her air plain story.
Some one complained – we don’t know whom
They called the police – Filed a complaint
The police over reacted – she kinked the Bishop out
It would be nice if she looked in the mirror. If she did she wold also have a better hair cut.

She also used the following phrase:
“an unpowered plane with a human pilot”
and here all these years I thought there was a pilot on the other side of that locked door in the front of the plain.

Then there was the “Jesus movement” comment. Yes, you are right, the ECUSA is just a business organization.

Should/Would/Could reporting on That Woman be properly called “hag-iography?”

“Presiding bishop preaches to Episcopalians in South Carolina” Preaches? I did not sense law or Gospel in her preaching. I did see her pairing reasonable actions with irrational murderous actions. This is also consistent with Katherine Ragsdale pairing the words abortion and blessing. Blessing does not make a murderous act clean and Pairing the word terrorist with a reasonable act does not sully the act. This is intentionally using language to confuse people. This is manipulation pure and simple. “Did God really say that?” (serpent)

Charles E A Johnson+, Bryan Hunter is obviously familiar with the traditional Evening Prayer service. Mr. Hunter, may God bless your diocese.

Wonder if her slanders / incoherent childish rants might come back to haunt her in any upcoming court cases in SC?

And come on guys, anyone still in the ECUSA waiting for change for the better, is sort of like a good Orthodox person still showing up at the Hagia Sophia every Sunday, wondering where the Priest is, where the icons went, and what that stuff in Arabic means.

When does this agent of Satan’s tenure end anyway?

2015

Dr. Tighe,
I would correct you, I think it may be 2024. I am aware of no canon that would prevent her succeeding herself. And her work is not yet finished, although she is certainly trying to accelerate things.

“Most of us don’t live in a world where one person is the ultimate Decider”

- said the Presiding Bishop, Metropolitan of the National Cathedral, Primate of All The Americas, Archbishop of Europe, and Pastor-in-Chief to “the Episcopal Church’s 2.4 million members in 16 countries and 110 dioceses”.

Fuinseoig, you left out “and Empress of the Lone Isles.” You are to report immediately to the conciliation chamber. Resistance is futile, you will be conciliated.

“…the Jesus movement”

WTH?

If a Christian linked, say, atheism to the school shootings, the outcry would be deafening.

What a foul and loathsome woman!

What the h*ll is the “Jesus Movement”?

Bryan Hunter,

I don’t know what went on in the meeting between the bishop and the Presiding Bishop, but the agreement that was told to us was that she would not come to Bishop Brewer’s consecration in return for her being allowed to come at another time because of the potential disunity. And according of course to the new title IV Canon changes as well as the lack of adherence to any of rule or custom and including the results of the discipline/agreement/compromise that the Fort Worth 7/9 are facing, I would say that anyone anywhere is liable to be deposed, disciplined or what ever TEC decides it wants. There are some in this diocese that see things at the same way but are keeping their heads down, obviously some who don’t and who choose to follow TEC, and then there are some who just get upset if you tell them anything outside of their personal experience. It’s not a comfortable place to be at times, but it is where God has us L2 for now.

I commented earlier to my other half today, “So, this is what the sinking of the Titanic felt like.” Again, some in my diocese feel that we are overreacting. Yet, there’s THIS letter.

Thanks for yours and everyone’s encouragement. I don’t think that we will be a will to get a Christian conservative elected as bishop in any diocese from here out, and I seriously feel that the diocese of Central Florida will be unrecognizable within just a couple of years, especially with the PB meeting several churches. But it’s not like the diocese has not been warned.

Come what may, we know that we have done all that we can. And we both can look ourselves in the mirror with a clear conscience.

The “Jesus movement” was a direct quote from her 6th paragraph as posted at the ENS sight. That is normally used by people who do not believe that Jesus was God Incarnate. They also do not believe that the Holly Spirit was directing growing Church.

L2, God bless you for hanging on. I commend you. I also feel your pain and, I know, anxiety at watching this all unfold. I fear you are correct about TEC not electing another orthodox bishop anytime in the future. They’ve invested too much rooting us out one by one. I’ve spent a considerable amount of time studying the early history of the Protestant Episcopal Church and its divines. Hard to believe things have come to this pass given such a goodly heritage. But the important thing is that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. “We have Christ’s own promise, and that cannot fail.” The peace of God to you all.

And thanks to all those well wishers who have expresses such encouragement for the Diocese of South Carolina.

Lakeland Two,
Take heart. Like Bryan Hunter, I too feel your pain having been thru the same pain for past few decades in various places.

As Bryan wrote earlier, there really is a sense of a clear light of a new day in realizing that we are free of TEC’s heresy. Such an incredible freedom! May God bless your work in Central Florida within or with out TEC.

I too say many thanks to those who express encouragement to us in the Diocese of South Carolina. It means more to us than you probably know.

But haven’t there been several relatively conservative bishops elected in the last 10 years: + Lawrence, + Martin, Western Louisiana, maybe? Granted, the leash is rather short for them, but theydid get elected.

Yes, but never again.

I think the Presiding Oceanographer’s objection to one person making decisions may have been directed at the trial judge, who is going to make a ruling as to who owns property and name under the law of South Carolina and who doesn’t.

“The Power of One” refuted by a megalomaniac.

That’s an interesting idea, JM. That would mean that she was so incensed by a legal setback that she wrote a sermon condemning the judge as a petty dictator. That’s not a good strategy for winning court cases.

tjmcmahon, regarding your loving fraternal rebuke and offer of reconciliation, (a) I assumed that temporal titles are inferior to spiritual ones and were understood to be subsumed into them and (b) the forms of address I quoted were those relevant to the topic at hand, namely the Presiding Bishop’s role of Supreme Spiritual Headship in a matter of defending TEC from usurpers, interlopers and pretenders to the cathedra of South Carolina that naturally, rightfully and by use and custom belongs to the Protestant Episcopal Church in the United States of America Episcopal Church in the United States of America The Episcopal Church (further name changes to follow when and as necessary).

“Empress of the Lone Isles” is, like the Pope’s title of “Sovereign of the State of Vatican City”, to be used in a separate, temporal capacity. Though I accept your correction that this is also a matter of temporal lordship, and so by my omission of her regnal dignity, I seemed to imply that the property claims and legal suits were not the most pressing and urgent matter in the entire history of Christendom. Of course I never meant to imply, infer or suggest such a dreadful thing.

I have been reconciled!

I’m confused… Is that more important or less important than I have been baptized?

“I think the Presiding Oceanographer’s objection to one person making decisions may have been directed at the trial judge, who is going to make a ruling as to who owns property and name under the law of South Carolina and who doesn’t.”

A great way to “Win Friends and Influene People.”
I hope SC submits the text as evidence.

The judge who issued the restraining order is a female. The Presiding itch [sp] refers to a male throughout her rant. She’s not using the indefinite ‘he.’ She’s talking about +Lawrence and canons.

Maybe someone should give her a call and ask for clarification. In NYC dial 212-716-6000 or 800-334-7626 from elsewhere. Tell them you’re a reporter for the MCJ. Or e-mail Neva Rae Fox.

Lakeland, the baptismal covenant over-rides all other matters, but in cases of gross heresy, rebellion, and thoughtcrime, reconciliation is the means of gently correcting the erring individual and bringing them back into the loving embrace of the One True Paradigm

Chris, We need to add a “Like” button to this site, so I can click on Fuinseoig’s comments.

Since the “continuing” group calls themselves the Episcopal Church of South Carolina, where does that leave the Diocese of Upper South Carolina?

I agree with The Little Myrmidon.

Also agree with TLM.

So that feeling of someone trying to grab my money is “the loving embrace”?

I’ve just read the 1/22 sermon by Fr. Dow Sanderson at Church of the Holy Communion at Charleston. He tells them the “new Bp” has promised that he will give them a DEPO Bp. from the Dio of Springfield (who, he says is Anglo Catholic). Is it very “revisionest” also? If not, I don’t think KJS will let that promise stand. Holy Communion may have great disappointment !

The only two leaders in modern history who have caused more heartache (who I can think of) than KJS and BHO, are Adolf H. and Joseph S.

“She’s not using the indefinite ‘he.’”

Using the indefinite “he” would be an act of countercultural resistance. It would be like crossing oneself in a public school room.

Lakeland, I think you are in need of some of tjmcmahon’s reconciliation yourself.

That is not someone trying to grab your money, that is caring and dutiful service towards exercising prudent stewardship and “fiduciary responsibility to protect the assets of the Episcopal Church for the mission of the Episcopal Church”, as well as relieving you of the burden and hindrance of worry about such mundance matters, a burden which they cheerfully and unselfishly assume on your behalf.

Maxine Schell, it’s very sad to hear that one of the TEC parishes already needs DEPO, a scheme which is temporary and dependent upon the good will of whoever the diocesan bishop happens to be. It is not a permanent arrangement. This is foolish in the extreme, when all they had to do was stay with Bishop Lawrence and the DioSC.

“He tells them the “new Bp” has promised that he will give them a DEPO Bp. from the Dio of Springfield (who, he says is Anglo Catholic). Is it very “revisionest” also? If not, I don’t think KJS will let that promise stand. Holy Communion may have great disappointment!”

This cracks me up. The Bp. of Springfield “ordains” women — some “Anglo-Catholic,” he! — and, besides, he has also been in the Presiding Flaminica’s beady eye not a long time hitherto. “Fool me once … fool me twice …” would seem to apply in spades to Holy Communion if they make a purchase from this “used bishop” salesperson!

Isn’t the bishop of Springfield under penalty of reconciliation?

Ja! Mit de Fort Worth 7 (or so)!

Dey vil be rekonsiled! undey vil lik it!

Sandra, I wondered that also. Upper SC has been very quiet through all this.

I do know that Bishop Waldo was at the convention on Saturday. After Mere Anglicanism finished, we drove by and saw him outside. He also appears in some of the photos.

Galletta, Bp Waldo doesn’t want to be accused of renouncing his orders, so he had to be there.

Maybe Waldo had scoped out the crowd and refused to be the interim bishop-sort-of-person for the whole state. I mean, he already has to deal with the PB-ess.

… So they got the impersonator? having liked his capitulatory style, eh?

WannabeAnglican,

You quoted

The Episcopal Church Welcomes You

but seem to have forgotten its more complete original form, to wit

The Episcopal Church Welcomes Your money.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

“I’ve just read the 1/22 sermon by Fr. Dow Sanderson at Church of the Holy Communion at Charleston. He tells them the “new Bp” has promised that he will give them a DEPO Bp. from the Dio of Springfield (who, he says is Anglo Catholic).”

ROTFLMDAO!