That’s the kind of liturgy that a “feminine, its all about feelings” theology gets you. Lex orandi, lex credendi did not emerge out of nothing, but as a consequence of humanity’s collective experience.

It even applies to the differences in liturgy between the “liberal” and the “orthodox” Catholic congregations, even when the terms “orthodox” and “liberal” are supposed to be meaningless terms, since liturgy in the Catholic Church is under the direction of the universal GIRM, or the General Instructions of the Roman Missal. !!!! .

gppp, I’m not up on American slang, but if by “fish taco” you mean a woman, then regardless of whether or not you’re “only” talking about lesbians, that’s insulting.

As to whether or not Susan Russell has another lover, I neither know nor particularly care. And it’s not just gay men and women who find new partners after the death of their old partner. Many straight people start new relationships in a very short time as well – it’s supposed to be all part of the ‘check off your steps on the Kubler-Ross scale of grieving/moving on’ idea. So if the idea is that ‘the funeral baked meats did coldly furnish forth the marriage feast’, and this indicates promiscuity and shallowness, then straights are just as promiscuous and shallow (see “Hamlet” re: the above quote, where Gertrude and Claudius are not a GLBT couple).

Thirdly, using derogatory names does not advance the cause of admonishing those who claim to be Christians or instructing the non-Christian in why their behaviours (not their orientation or their temptations, but their behaviours) are sinful and does not help in making the teaching of the Church attractive. Why should anyone stick around to be insulted? Those who are hardened in their sin will only take it as “see the homophobia!” but those who are still reachable will be turned away as well.

Call an apostate an apostate, indeed. Call sin, sin. But using insulting slang terms helps nobody.

Signed, one of those drunken, violent Micks.

Fuinseoig -

You said it much better and definitely more elegantly than I ever could. What our “brother”(?) gppp said made me wince also. A great demonstration of how not to win people over to the Kingdom.

Yes, All Saints, Pasadena, is farther out and farther afield than I would ever want to be. but that does not give me license to insult and belittle those, poor, misguided lambs who have gone far, far astray.

Peace and blessings to us all! May we tend to our own beams and let our brothers tend to their own motes.

“Fish taco” is a new one on me; I guess I don’t hang around with the right people.

What really puzzles me is that the friend is quoted as saying “LIE-tur-gee.” I’m trying, and failing, to imagine a reasonably well educated person who has never encountered the word in his life, and has to guess at the pronunciation.

GPPP is an ignorant pig. Good to know – it’ll save me time not bothering to actually read his/her posts from here on in.

LIE-tur-gee?

Their web site is a veritable treasure trove of traditions (the 3 liturgical T’s). I took particular note of the “Jazz Vespers,” and so decided not to delve into the repository of sermons.

:rolleyes:

You can sign their anti-gun petition if you visit.

insulting. disgusting. amusing.

Out of the park gppp, but this is probably the wrong venue. Try it on reddit.com?

Everyone is promiscuous and shallow, by nature (where our nature is fallen) The problem here is those who accept our fallen state as good and wholesome, rather than corrupt. Without a godly standard to aspire to, the need for salvation in Christ is lost.

The void is filled by social advocacy. And behavior that lends itself to vulgar description.

Thanks to Fuinseoig for saying it well. The really over-the-top offensive language to describe sinful behavior doesn’t help the cause of promoting right behavior, in my opinion. As Creedal says, there may be venues where this vulgarity in anger is understood and accepted, but for general use, and for evangelism (these gay activists are lost souls, remember), a measured righteousness without hatred is far more effective.

Nonetheless, I don’t think gppp is an “ignorant pig.” From his postings here, he’s been exposed over many years to some outrageous behavior by same-sex-attracted individuals, including having had to fend off indecent advances from men when he was a young guy in church music programs. This makes him angry, understandably.

I am old enough to remember when children were taught, “Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me.” I know many er, ah, plain spoken folk. I don’t invite them to a dinner party, but do enjoy conversing with them if they have something to say. I don’t think anyone on this site actually supports PC speech, but see how close we’re coming?

Happy New Year to all!

I don’t know if my comment was removed by our host or automatically (I used some very, very forceful launguage) but I wish a record to remain of my opposition to mockery of the bereaved, disordered or no.

My opposition is vehement.

What ETR says, WRT mockery of the bereaved, disordered or no. And if the bereavement proves unduly brief, then she is all the more in need of our prayers for her rescue by the Lord…..Gppp, you are better than this. I have been through a lot of trauma of my own at the hands of a disordered individual, understand the temptation to let the natural anger run verbally rampant sometimes instead of channeling/managing it, but have pretty much learned not to– and it was and is a far better way, to realize that I was and am better than that. So are you, beloved.

off2, there’s plainspoken, and then there’s just not appropriate at all. I’m not going to call gppp rude or a pig or any such epithets, but I do object to slang terms that denigrate anyone. “Fish taco” is not a complimentary term for a woman, straight or lesbian. That’s the plain and simple part of it.

I don’t like it when straight men refer to women in terms of “pussy”, “bitches” or “hos” either. I don’t like it when GLBT types refer sneeringly to “breeders”. I have no object to calling sin sin, or that trying to make the union of two same-sex people the exact equivalent of marriage is absurd, no matter how much the effort expended by those agitating for “marriage equality” or “marriage fairness”.

But there is no point in being offensive for the sake of it, and the way gppp framed his opinion was needlessly offensive in my view. I’m happy to be persuaded otherwise, but for my part, I know I tend to abandon any atheist/freethinker blog that starts off with how “faith heads” are so dumb and stupid and needy because they believe in the “sky fairy”. I don’t see any reason why same-sex attracted people would read on any further in an article arguing that their behaviour is sinful when they get described as “fish tacos” or “butt-buddies”.

There is indeed the movement of Political Correctness that seeks to stifle any discussion, but there is also good reason to look at expressions and attitudes of both today and former times. I have been mildly shocked to read fiction from the 1920s and 30s where terms like “nigger” are used with gay abandon and as a matter of course, even in the mouths of characters who are not depicted as actively racist or prejudiced. It was ‘just how people spoke’ back then, but do any of us think that disapproval of the term has been such a loss to public debate or private discourse?

Katharine, the fact that one was angered by exposure to offensive behavior by members of a group entitles one to use vile, cruel, disgusting language in reference to all other members of that group? Really?

It seems that the post has been removed which I think is too bad. Gppp should not be protected from his/her own displays of cruelty and ignorance. Better to be seen for person he/she is.

Lakewood, if you read my first paragraph, you would know that I don’t think the language is either justified or helpful no matter how angry he is.

I pulled it for two reasons. I’ve always preferred to do these things quietly. And because it was exactly the sort of language I don’t ever want to see around here. Whatever your differences might be, no one deserves to be referred to in those terms.

Ever.

Off2, my wife died a little over a year ago. Now I am sailor, and it takes a fair amount of bad language to actually make me sit up and notice, but making fun of somebody losing their sweetie, gay or straight, chaps me pretty badly.

*That* is what *I* was objecting to.

You’re a sailor, E the R? If he was still commenting here, this would be a great place for a ForNow joke.

Chris pulled my comment from last night. I’m sorry that what I said offended so many; I won’t use the terms here again, but the sentiment behind them are genuine and I won’t make any apology for that. Too many things have been done to and around me over the years to ever believe otherwise.

To her credit, Katherine remembers some of what I have commented on here in the past, and there is more than I have told so far. Without writing a book about it, I grew up in music in TEo, and although I was never molested, from my early teens was subjected to advances from homosexuals before I even knew what homosexuals are. Virtually every homosexual who made advances had done so to other boys I knew, some even moving from job to job and city to city as their preferences for young boys became known. Some are still working in parishes in TEo (I can name names, but that might go too far for some).

I know (and not just by name, but from years-long acquaintances) at least four predatory homosexuals who have served federal or state prison time for their crimes against nature and young boys — how many of you know even one? I know of at least three others who, if they were never caught should have been. I also know personally a few leading (at the time) TEo musicians who actively covered up the rape of a young teenage boy (by an early 20s proctor) at an RSCM summer course I attended back in the 1980s. There’s more, but by now you either get my drift or you won’t.

It’s no mystery to me that homosexuals are ten times as likely as their normal counterparts to abuse or molest children. I’ve lived a part of the ugly side of that statistic. Part of my reason for being over the top about at times now is that I’ve felt pressured into keeping quiet in the past; I don’t want to be quiet about it any more.

I do believe that people like Susan Russell are capable and worthy of redemption; but they show us all that their itching ears have been so deceived by Satan that rejecting redemption is all they’re interested in. This is manifested not only in what they themselves do, but also in covering up what they don’t want the rest of us to see or hear about (think KJS/Bede Parry as but one example).

But Susie, Hopkins, and the like aren’t just ordinary sheeple. They’ve been ordained into holy orders, and as such are responsible for the souls placed in their care. That they openly decieve and teach on Satan’s behalf is to me unforgivable and, I believe, worthy of ridicule (at least) or condemnation (at worst).

No matter what they want the rest of us to believe, homosexuals are not nice people. They want only what they want, the rest of us be damned if that’s what things come to. They may well someday get what they want, given the fallen human condition; they’ve gotten so far only because there were those like me and the rest of us who accepted their pleas for “tolerance,” only to find out that they were lying the whole time.

I’m tired of being quiet about it. I don’t speak up every time something like this comes up, but I am much less likely to be quiet about it.

gppp, that’s a much, much better comment. It expresses your heartfelt feelings and your experiences but doesn’t descend to their level — and that part is important. You remind me, in this regard, of Anglican journalist David Virtue. If I correctly recall his story, he had a brother-in-law (?) who was an active homosexual and one of the early AIDS victims. Virtue nursed him in his final days and retains a deep anger over the deceptive and evil life which caused this horrible ending. I haven’t read much of his work recently, but some years ago I came to feel that his vulgar expressions about the gay lifestyle were counter-productive; they didn’t convince anyone who wasn’t already convinced, and they allowed the other side to point to us as ugly and uncharitable. Same thing here. The anger and the opposition to evil I fully understand and support. Don’t let them play you into using language that makes YOU the bad guy. It’s a game they like.

I’m sure that if ForNow were still commenting here he’d flay
you alive for missing a chance to use the subjunctive, Chris.

};->

I’d look up subjunctive but I don’t really want to. What is that again? < / dodging heavenly bolts of maternal rage from my mother who taught English for a great many years and who used to get really worked up about stuff like this>

Means ya shooda said ‘…if he were…’.