CHERCE

Monday, March 30th, 2009 | Uncategorized

Don’t get Katherine Ragsdale wrong.  No one supports freedom of conscience more strongly than Katie Rags.  As long as your stupid conscience does what she tells it to:

Let me say a bit more about that, because the religious community has long been an advocate of taking principled stands of conscience – even when such stands require civil disobedience. We’ve supported conscientious objectors, the Underground Railroad, freedom riders, sanctuary seekers, and anti-apartheid protestors. We support people who put their freedom and safety at risk for principles they believe in.

But let’s be clear, there’s a world of difference between those who engage in such civil disobedience, and pay the price, and doctors and pharmacists who insist that the rest of the world reorder itself to protect their consciences – that others pay the price for their principles.

This isn’t particularly complicated. If your conscience forbids you to carry arms, don’t join the military or become a police officer. If you have qualms about animal experimentation, think hard before choosing to go into medical research. And, if you’re not prepared to provide the full range of reproductive health care (or prescriptions) to any woman who needs it then don’t go into obstetrics and gynecology, or internal or emergency medicine, or pharmacology. Choose another field! We’ll respect your consciences when you begin to take responsibility for them.

If you’ve read much antebellum American history, you probably recognize that argument.  Think chattel slavery is a great evil?  That’s your right.  Want to ban chattel slavery in your state?  That’s also your right.  But it is not your right to demand that I agree with your view of the world.

Once again, we see the modern Episcopal weltanschauung in full flower.  There is only one right answer.  Mine.  So we need to keep talking until you realize how right I am. 

But Katie Rags takes matters a step further.  In her ideal world, if you think that the unborn are human beings, you would literally be forbidden from holding certain professions.  You couldn’t be a doctor or a nurse or a pharmacist or any other kind of medical professional.  Ever.

Unless, of course, you decide that your principles really don’t matter that much and whore them out to the Zeitgeist like Katie Rags did.  In which case, the sky’s the limit.

42 Comments to CHERCE

Michael D
March 31, 2009

Honestly, as appalled as I have been by the likes of Spong and Ingham, Rev Rags exceeds them. Secularists would say that she is a sociopath, I suppose, or a fascist, but my spidey senses are telling me there is deep evil at work in her and through her. I keep getting this image of a filthy ragged blood-stained spirit wandering in hell. This is, perhaps, the beginning of the end of the Episcopal Divinity School. Perhaps she is God’s judgment visited upon them.

Your adversary, the devil, prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour. 1 Pet 3:8

JM
March 31, 2009

Yep. She makes Bishop Robinson look moderate. Which he is in TEO.

Paula Loughlin
March 31, 2009

I totally agree with Michael D. That EDS could view her as the best candidate clearly shows what one can expect from clergy trained in that pit. Who in their right mind would even contemplate allowing such people to have any access or influence on the spiritual upbringing of their children?

Allen Lewis
March 31, 2009

Paula -
Who in their right mind would even contemplate allowing such people to have any access or influence on the spiritual upbringing of their children?

To answer your question, only those who truly hate their children would allow someone with such a twisted view of morality to have anything to do with them.

Of course, if she were to come over here and read the comments, I am sure she would revel in them.

Michael D
March 31, 2009

What is a “Cherce”, by the way?

Matthew
March 31, 2009

Choice, mispronounced.

I love how people such as the Rev Ragsdale glorify freedom for themselves whilst denying it to others. They proclaim civil rights for the privileged few whilst imposing slavery upon the great unwashed.

Big Brother would be proud. The practise of duckspeak is alive and well.

Tom (St. Louis)
March 31, 2009

“We’ll respect your consciences when you begin to take responsibility for them.”

Lord have mercy! What an insane statement! First off, the fact is the number of abortions due to criminal acts (rape, incest) is infinitesimal. The vast majority of abortions result from consentual relations. What about taking responsibility for that?

Don’t doctor’s still take the Hypocratic Oath, which I believe prevents the voluntary taking of life? Seems to mee that doctors who refuse to participate in abortion are honoring their vows far better than those who do.

Why is murder the only “choice”? What about the choice not to engage in sexual relations? What about the choice to use contraceptives? What about the choice to place your child up for adoption? WHAT ABOUT THE CHOICE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR THE LIFE YOU HAVE CREATED?

Is this pitiful woman truly the best they could find? What brutal, violent theology to be taught by this wretched creature in a seminary!

LORD HAVE MERCY!

The Little Myrmidon
March 31, 2009

“To think, there are those who wish to deprive the poor of children.”

I, too, noticed that Rev. Ragsdale has given up all pretense that abortion is a “last resort” remedy only to be used in cases of rape, incest, to save the life of the mother, etc, etc. She pretty much admits that it’s just a form of birth control, which the pro-choice people have strenuously tried to avoid.

What a shrill, nasty woman.

Maybe they’ve finally gone too far. Maybe this will be the watershed event.

Gawk
March 31, 2009

The Little Myrmidon…..”Maybe they’ve finally gone too far. Maybe this will be the watershed event.”…….I can only believe you are joking? Right?

Tregonsee
March 31, 2009

As the old joke ends, “Just one more thing, and I am outa here!”

Brian
March 31, 2009

This, from her website, is one of the most horrifying things I’ve read in a long time:

“And when a woman becomes pregnant within a loving, supportive, respectful relationship; has every option open to her; decides she does not wish to bear a child; and has access to a safe, affordable abortion – there is not a tragedy in sight –only blessing. The ability to enjoy God’s good gift of sexuality without compromising one’s education, life’s work, or ability to put to use God’s gifts and call is simply blessing.”

Where does this logic go? If caring for your sick grandmother is getting in the way of your life, then smothering her with a pillow is not a tragedy–only blessing!

GA/FL
March 31, 2009

The culture of death totalitarians do not respect the consciences and rights of doctors and nurses to refuse to do abortions, or of the citizens’ to refuse to fund them.

Oh no.

PNP, OP
March 31, 2009

This is truly evil.

I give thanks to God for leading me out of the Episcopal Church.

What kind of sick bastard do you have to be to hold that killing a child for absolutely no reason whatsoever is a blessing from God.

If this woman isn’t an agent of Satan himself, I simply do not know who could be.

Forgive me, but I have to say this: why any of you remain in this diabolical whirlpool is beyond me…get out while you can.

Fr. Philip, OP

Bill (not IB)
March 31, 2009

Not to nitpick, but –

there’s a big difference between the “Hippocratic Oath” of doctors (from the Greek physician Hippocrates) and a “Hypocratic” oath, which would be one that endorses Hypocrisy.

Homonyms can be dangerous!

The Little Myrmidon
March 31, 2009

Wow, PNP, OP – nailed it.

Yes, she is an agent of Satan….but unlike the old joke, her duties are not largely ceremonial.

kc
March 31, 2009

“The ability to enjoy God’s good gift of sexuality without compromising one’s education, life’s work, or ability to put to use God’s gifts and call is simply blessing.”

interesting…her “god” only gives gifts and requires nothing…

The Little Myrmidon
March 31, 2009

Of course, as I posted yesterday on another thread on this same topic, she’ll fit right in. Take, for example, these other faculty members:

Frederica Harris Thompsett

Gale Yee

Karen B. Montagno

Kwok Pui Lan

William Tighe
March 31, 2009

“interesting…her “god” only gives gifts and requires nothing…”

except to pass their children “into the fire” through his “loving arms”

Rick Harris
March 31, 2009

And when euthanasia becomes legalized, or enshrined as a constitutional right of privacy existing within the “penumbra” of the first amendment, then will those who object to killing the elderly, the terminally ill, the mentally ill, the mentally retarded, and the severely disabled be required to leave the medical profession– in order to avoid requiring the rest of the world to reorder itself to protect their consciences?

Daniel Muller
March 31, 2009

will those who object to killing the elderly, the terminally ill, the mentally ill, the mentally retarded, and the severely disabled be required to leave the medical profession– in order to avoid requiring the rest of the world to reorder itself to protect their consciences?

Oh, I can answer that even before I finish my coffee. The objectors will simply be reclassified as mentally ill. Literally: two birds with one stone.

DoW
March 31, 2009

This woman is your typical Josef Mengele personality.

She loves abortion under any circumstance to the point of calling it a blessing. She loves the idea of abortion. She loves the act of abortion. She loves everything about it. It’s not a “tragedy” to her when a baby is aborted, it is a “blessing”.

And with this Josef Mengele personality of course, comes the love of tyranny. The love of “believe this or else” attitude. A true sadist.

Smurf Breath
March 31, 2009

I hope I’m not violating Godwins’ law, but I can’t help thinking

‘This isn’t particularly complicated. If your conscience forbids you to carry arms, don’t join the military or become a police officer. If you have qualms about animal experimentation, think hard before choosing to go into medical research. And, if you’re not prepared to support the full range of measures necessary to preserve the human race by eliminating inferior races then think hard before choosing to go into medical research. And, if you’re not prepared to provide the full range of reproductive health care (or prescriptions) to any woman who needs it then don’t go into obstetrics and gynecology.’

.
ie she seems to be assuming a lot of stuff (the hippocratic oath necessitates the obligation to abort babies) when she (re)defines the profession of medicine. But maybe I’m overlooking something. I’m open minded. Katherine? Dave? Do you want to correct me? Please make your case. Otherwise I’ll be forced to assume you have no answer and you are in fact sociopaths.

Allen Lewis
March 31, 2009

I think I read somewhere that doctors no longer take the Hippocratic Oath anymore. I guess the clause that says “I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion” was the deal breaker.

Ms. Ragsdale is the poster liberal who would insist that her conscientious scruples be honored (when her views are in the minority) but refuses to honor anyone else’s, especially when her side is in the majority.

Yes, I can see her advocating for euthanasia in a few short years. I would guess the main argument would be to conserve the scarce resources that an elderly person consumes. Wonder if she will carve out an exception for herself?

Dale Price
March 31, 2009

“Who in their right mind would even contemplate allowing such people to have any access or influence on the spiritual upbringing of their children?”

What children? These are Episcopalians we are talking about. Kate Schori’s good stewards.

On a wholly unrelated note, Warren, Michigan is the third largest city in the state. Its only Episcopal Church, St. George, proudly identified itself as a center for “Progressive Christianity.” The location was 25100 Lorraine.

http://web1.userinstinct.com/23054969-st-georges-episcopal-church.htm

It closed in 2008 and is now a Missionary Baptist Church.

http://www.asianmissionarybaptistchurch.net/

Sorry–had to go off on an irrelevant tangent there.

Christopher Johnson
March 31, 2009

I’ve got Brooklyn blood in me so Matthew is obviously incorrect. “Cherce” is “choice” correctly pronounced. You know, like that sweetly-singing boid outside your window.

:-)

The Bovina Bloviator
March 31, 2009

Christopher, the best use of that pronunciation is in the movie “Pat and Mike,” where Mike (Spencer Tracy) says admiringly of Pat (Katharine Hepburn): “There ain’t much meat on her but what there is, is cherce!”

gppp
March 31, 2009

How many centuries before she could get a job at Nashotah House, you think?

What an utter baby-killing bitch.

Athanasius Returns
March 31, 2009

- Katharine and Katherine -

Poster children for what TEC is.

Disgustingly sick!

KC
March 31, 2009

Susan Russell is down with it…God is clearly doing a new thing with abortion, too….

Katherine
March 31, 2009

These people are giving my name a bad name.

TEC, at least the revisionist part, which is most of it these days, has become a sex-worshiping cult. Sexual experience of any variety is their god, and anything which enables sexual activity without consequences is by their definition good. Abortion is good because otherwise women and the men who impregnate them would have to take responsibility. This is even worse than the ancient fertility cults, which at least worshiped sex because it makes babies.

And Ragsdale’s reportedly being a lesbian makes it even worse. She doesn’t care about pregnancy, because she doesn’t like men. Abortion allows all women to behave as if men don’t matter. This may be another of her goals.

Christian
March 31, 2009

I’m an architect, and am free to decline to work for any potential client as I see fit…I supppose the same is true for lawyers and other professionals. Why it shouldn’t be true for, say, phamacists doesn’t seem reasonable.

Sasha
March 31, 2009

Abortion allows all women to behave as if men don’t matter.

Perfectly said, Katherine!!!

A Soviet ambassadress (I think it was to Sweden), a Gospozhá Kollontáy (IIRC), articulated that philosophy in Ljéñin’s time, saying that women should not worry about sex as a need other than as water – in other words, to be consumed but without consequences! She was militantly pro-abortion as well as anti-men.

Sasha
March 31, 2009

Gospozhá = Mme./Ms./Frau/etc.

Athanasius Returns
March 31, 2009

Katherine (above),

Please accept my apologies. I meant to cast no aspersions against your good name. The PB and EDS head-elect are doing a fine enough job casting their own aspersions.

Janjan
March 31, 2009

Of course as Little Myrmidon can attest, if your mother came from Boston she’d say “Chice” (rhymes with ice).

Ms. Rags won’t hear that accent very much in her rarefied Cambridge surroundings. She be surrounded by yes-gays, and no one will dare challenge this relativism.

Didn’t C.S. Lewis, cover this nonsense in “Mere Christianity”? I seem to remember an example that involved “I don’t believe it would be wrong to pour this pot of boiling water over you, so therefore it’s not wrong for me.”

Could be wrong but you get the idea.

Christopher Johnson
March 31, 2009

My mom was born in Ridgewood in Queens, just outside Brooklyn, and actually used to talk like that. Then she moved to Montana and Missouri and lost the accent. Every time we’d go back for a visit to my grandmother or my uncle, Mom was a source of great amusement to my New York cousins. They all loved to hear how funny she talked.

FW Ken
March 31, 2009

I’m an architect, and am free to decline to work for any potential client as I see fit…

So far.

Every pharmacist must provide contraceptives, include abortifacients
Every doctor must perform abortions
Every hospital must allow abortions
Every adoption agencies must place with gay couples
Every matchmaker (think: eHarmony) must service gays
Every photographer must take pictures is requested by gays
All “public accomodations” (pretty much defined as anything a gay person wants) must accommodate gays, who are, born that way and entitled to full acceptance in society in the same manner as blacks and other ethnic groups.

Groups that don’t dance to their tune are injury women, children, whoever.

I recently read a comment on another site to the effect that the writer could never be free as long as Catholic bishops could excommunicate pro-choice politicians. Another poster on that site, a sodomite, routinely makes slanderous claims against the Catholic Church, and all Christians, that are more pathetic for the ease with which they are debunked. His most recent statement was that “The media are 100% in the pocket of Christianity.”

We are not dealing with nice people with whom we simply disagree: there is a social malignancy at work here that will take us all down. I’ll spare you poor folks my full rant on this subject, but I’m fairly comfortable saying that a prosperous society is prone to these ills and that American culture, on it’s present course, as the same future as the Episcopal Church, on it’s present course.

FW Ken
April 1, 2009

are injury women, children, whoever

Are injuring, of course.

Katherine
April 1, 2009

FW Ken, it may indeed be because we’re prosperous, but it’s also because we’re not Christian, as a culture, any more. Lots of quotes from the Founding Fathers could be exhibited to support their idea that a representative republic like ours works when the population is religious and moral. They were right. We’re losing our religion and our republic.

FenelonSpoke
April 2, 2009

Katherine Ragsade must have been getting a lot of heat like Kevin Thew Forrester because her sermons are no longer available online.

Paula Loughlin
April 2, 2009

This is from a sermon she gave to a group called Spiritual Youth For Reproductive Freedom. Thanks to Jill W for linking to this on SF.

“I recently had the privilege of sitting on a panel at a medical school for a class on abortion. It was
a delightful experience-wonderful students, wonderful faculty, great opportunity. But I have to tell you that I was appalled by the discourse between the ethicist on the panel and some of the
students. They kept talking about the ethics of conscience and the importance of a conscience that
allows caregivers who have qualms about abortion the freedom not to be involved in any abortion
procedures. But no one mentioned-until I had had enough and jumped in-the disturbing
implications of such acts of conscience. No one asked whether it was ethical for someone who was
not prepared to provide the full range of reproductive services to become a gynecologist in the first place. No one suggested that failure to provide care might be morally suspect or that providing abortions might be an act of faith and conscience.”

She is toxic.

SouthCoast
April 2, 2009

How long until the Episcognostics declare abortion to be a sacrament, and consume the fetus as an outward and visible sign, as in Epiphanius’ “Panarion”? (Think I’m kidding? Look up PETA’s president’s instructions for the disposal of her mortal remains!)

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