Posted by Christopher Johnson | Sunday, October 7th, 2012 | Uncategorized | 54 Comments
Legendary MCJ commenter Katherine informs me that my comment below actually made it into the Episcopal News Service story on the Marc Andrus controversy. For which I can’t compliment ENS enough and I mean that sincerely. I used to think that Episcopal Cafe was the Internet gold standard of the Episcopal left but ENS has just blown by Naughton’s joint to take a commanding lead.
That’s really the only way to run sites like this. Let people say what they think. ENS has standards about what it will or won’t run and I get that; I’ve got them myself. Although I don’t moderate, I have pulled or severely edited comments that crossed my line. I think more honest debate goes on in a week at ENS than goes on in six months to a year at Jim’s fine Web establishment.
Katherine also directs the Editorial attention to this comment from Doug Theuner, former Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire and the guy who greased the skids for the election of Gene Robinson and the destruction of the Anglican world. Before you start, go and get yourselves something enjoyable to drink. And then sit back, relax and get ready for one of the wildest anti-Catholic rides I can ever remember:
OY VEZ, Marc, sounds to me like just another example of the current Roman policy of hiding their true intentions behind a wall of deceit and deception.
And we’re off. I’m guessing Dougie means oy vey there and I have no idea why he capitalized it. And I don’t know where that “wall of deceit and deception” is coming from.
Several years ago when John McCormick, the then new Roman Bishop of Manchester, NH was “enthroned” as ordinary here (following a long career as infamous Bernie Law’s right-hand man in the pedophile scandals of the Archdiocese of Boston),
I was invited to attend the ritual
The ritual. Not the consecration, not the installation. The ritual. Yeah, Vague, Ambiguous, Infinitely-Malleable, Inclusive, Affirming, Open-Minded And Tolerant Deity Concept knows what kinds of weird ceremonies those “Romans” perform.
in St. Joseph’s Cathedral (where I, myself, had been consecrated many years before as Episcopal Bishop of New Hampshire) and I did so. After being seated with other ecumenical representatives, I was handed a four page document outlining in detail who could receive the Holy Communion (as I recall, the Orthodox and Polish National Catholics) and who could not (Episcopalians and other “PROTESTANT” – you better believe it ! – NON-churched members of “Christian Communities”).
Two things, Doug. What’s with capitalizing words for no particular reason? I’m sitting right here. And you do know that you’re not supposed to use the “P” word what with the Anglican tradition being “apostolic” and Celtic Christian and via media and stuff.
Expecting as much, I had attended in only a purple cassock and I left – as surruptitiously as possible – at the Offertory, understanding that it was just rude and not done in ANYBODY’S BOOK to invite people to a dinner party and then tell them they couldn’t eat with the other guests.
I apologize in advance for what I’m about to write but when you run one of these things, sometimes you just have to cut loose or you’ll go nuts.
Dinner party, Dougie? DINNER PARTY?!! I shouldn’t have to explain this to someone who has presumably been to college but the Roman Catholic Church believes that the Eucharist involves the
of the real Lord Jesus Christ. Really. Insofar as they believe that and you just called the Eucharist a DINNER PARTY, what the
gives you the right to be offended when the Catholics won’t give you any bread or wine? For the love of God, stick a sock in it, jackass.
I was later informed that NH’s then senior senator, Judd Gregg- a CONGREGATIONALIST!
Would it have mattered if Gregg had been a ZOROASTRIAN or a SHINTOIST? Man, I am jonesing for a “the Pope is the false prophet in Revelation” take right about now.
who was, of course, seated in the front row (!) and all his family present received Holy Communion.
Given who wrote that, I rather doubt it. But maybe there’s some sort of Catholic canon law which allows Catholic priests the option to give Communion to non-Catholics who aren’t insufferable, bigoted douchebags.
The Romans. Not Americans who are members of the Roman Catholic Church. Romans. Foreigners. I’ll bet you thought you were Irish, didn’t you, Fuinseoig? I’ll bet you think the Roman legions never crossed the Irish Sea.
Silly you. Turns out that they didn’t have to make the effort since you let them in on your own. Dougie, some of the most fundamentalist Protestants I know think that’s messed up. Jack Chick wants me to tell you that he’ll keep your resume on file.
I know that Catholics tend to laugh this stuff off but since it comes from the last person who should ever display these sentiments, I’ll be damned if I ever let this kind of religious bigotry slide. To butcher that Churchill quote about the Church of England once again, while I’ll probably never be a pillar of any Roman Catholic parish, I can at least be a flying buttress and support it from the outside.
must have forgotten that the former Governor, as his like-named father had been before him, was merely a member of a “protestant Christian Community!
At least he had the Christian religion going for him. So there’s that.
[As Lord Acton, prominent British Roman
You learn something new every day. I thought Lord Acton was a Hungarian Aleut.
and supporter of Rome’s place in England, famously said of the pope just prior to the 19th century promulgation of the doctrine of papal infallibility: “Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely”.]
Prominent blogger Christopher Johnson famously said, “If Doug Theuner’s any indication, receiving a pointy hat and a hooked stick from the Episcopal Organization costs you at least 50 IQ points.” Feel free to use that one any time you want. You can also use this one. “Doug Theuner is a whiny, petulant, classless little baby.”
I immediately went home and sent a letter to all of our diocesan clergy requesting that in the future they not wear eucharistic vestments to any place where their eucharistic celebrations were not recognized and that, if invited to Roman eucharistic liturgies, they leave, as I had, prior to the celebration.
And if you think Episcopalians like Marc Andrus are an exception, they’re not.
My actions had not been as surruptitious as I thought they might be (I frequently have that problem!) and, shortly after the incident in question the new Roman bishop invited me to a restaurant lunch at which, over a pleasant repast, he so informed me. I politely told him that, if he wanted to be known in New Hampshire, as a catholic, he would do well to behave in a more “catholic” manner.
I grew up with this same kind of arrogant, condescending crap from one-true-churchers like Doug Theuner. I never heard more scorn and contempt for Roman Catholicism than I heard while walking around the parish hall during coffee hour and listening to the conversation between the clergy and our many ex-Catholics at my old Episcopal parish.
But since Dougie’s all butthurt because the Catholics wouldn’t give him a little bread and a sip of wine, here’s a situation. My best friend is Catholic. He’s about my age and, like me, he’s given up on the idea of ever getting married.
I don’t see him for a long time until he wanders by the library one day and we get caught up. I tell him I’ve got Rams tickets for a game in about a month and does he want to go? “No can do that weekend,” he says with a smile.
“Why not,” I wonder.
“Because I’m getting married,” he tells me. “And is there any chance you can be my best man?”
“HELL YES!!” I shout at him. “I’ll sell the damn tickets if I have to.”
“It’s going to be a Catholic service,” my friend continues. “Which means that you won’t be able to take…you know.”
Here’s my question, Dougie. Because I won’t be able to have a bit of bread and wine one time, should I get all angry and tell my best friend to forget it, find himself another best man and probably end our friendship? Or should I tell my friend, “Whatever, dude. When’s my tux fitting?” show up anyway and celebrate my friend’s joy?
Inquiring minds want to know, crapweasel.