I certainly hope that the good Bp. Andrus doesn’t present himself to receive the Sacrament. You know, St. Paul and all that.

Thanking God he is not like the pope. Is that what they call chutzpah?

OOPS – that was the commenter who dissed the Holy Father. My apologies to good bishop Andrus.

Episcopalians have been hoping to protestantize us since the first Italians got off the boat in America in the 1800s. You see it today with ‘Hispanic outreach’. (I think of that when they bitch about the ordinariate, when their losing faction left on their own and asked to join.) White ethnic Catholicism is on life support, though not as bad as the mainline, but people like Bishop Andrus don’t understand us, including Bad Catholics. I know them. They don’t go to Mass and may not toe the line but they know the church won’t, can’t change, and they will never join another faith. So the Episcopalians never get the windfall they want. Anybody the liberals hate as much as Cordileone has got to be halfway decent.

“”Some Catholics may find themselves less at home with Salvatore Cordileone’s installation and they may come to The Episcopal Church. We should welcome them as our sisters and brothers.”"

—

Sounds to me that Andrus is hoping some Catholics will fill the pews of his vacant Episcopal Churches.

If I recall correctly, the Episcopals have a pattern of getting testy when other denominations are raiding.

There are SO MANY Romans heading toward PECUSA it’s just frightening. You’ve heard about all the lawsuits from whole parishes and even a couple of dioceses bolting off to Canterbury….Oh…Wait…

“The recognition of the dignity and rights, within civil society and the Church of lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgendered people …”

Mr. Andrus: can you explain to me what dignity and men having sex with other men have in common? Thanks!

I am sure that, even if he says nothing, Cordileone has a much more charitable answer than I do to such baiting.

Diocese of California ASA at the beginning of 2011: 8,169. Total five-county population: 4,123,740. Just saying.

(Now at least St. Michael and All Angels apparently has outreach to “Pentacostals” — although most people would refer to it as building rental.)

If I were the new Archbishop, I’d simply decline any contact with Andrus. His open contempt for the long-standing teachings of the Church show that he’s not truly interested in anything other than post-Modern pseudo-Christianity.

And I’d say odds are 10-1 that if Andrus attends the installation, he WILL [attempt to] receive the Sacrament. If he has no respect for teachings on such things as homosexuality, then he’s hardly likely to be put off by closed communion – especially given how much TEO has been leaning toward complete open “communion” (including the unbaptized).

Aw, gee. A so-called “bishop” of an insignificant homosexual cult might not be able to work with a Roman Catholic Archbishop unless the Pope performs a sodomite “marriage” in St. Peter’s Basilica while wearing pink vestments.

Why, whatever will the Roman Church do without this fellow assistance? My, oh, my.

Bishop, with these comments you are really spoiling us!

“The announcement of his appointment by Pope Benedict has come with mixed reactions and feelings from San Franciscans of all or no faith tradition.”

I feel the urge, inspired by that remark, welling up within me to quote some poetry:

“Are they clinging to their crosses,
F.E. Smith,
Where the Breton boat-fleet tosses,
Are they, Smith?
Do they, fasting, trembling, bleeding,
Wait the news from this our city?
Groaning ‘That’s the Second Reading!’
Hissing ‘There is still Committee!’
If the voice of Cecil falters,
If McKenna’s point has pith,
Do they tremble for their altars?
Do they, Smith?”

“At the same time as we did this important work together, we took very different public positions on Proposition 8. We can and must both work together for the world’s good”

So what’s the problem with Archbishop Cordileone? If co-operation is possible, even with differing responses to political campaigns, why should it matter whether or not he’s willing to march beside you in the next Pride Parade?

“The recognition of the dignity and rights, within civil society and the Church of lesbian, bisexual, gay and transgendered people, and of women”

Yes, both our denominations are in agreement on that one. Recognising the human dignity of all humans, regardless of their race, gender, or sexual orientation, not to mention stage of biological development, is acknowledged by us Papists also. It doesn’t mean saying that rights exist where no rights previously did before, however.

“In working together with the Archdiocese of San Francisco, however, I will not change my course with regard to the full inclusion of all people in the full life of the church.”

And still with you on this one. We all need the grace of God, we’re all wretched sinners, we all can come to the foot of the cross and throw ourselves on the Divine Mercy. But we don’t get to expect to do that and continue on working as professional arsonists for a living, for example, just because there is no specific prohibition in either Leviticus or the Epistles of St. Paul about “burning down a joint for the insurance if you can make it look like an electrical thing”.

“Some Catholics may find themselves less at home with Salvatore Cordileone’s installation and they may come to The Episcopal Church. We should welcome them as our sisters and brothers.”

Oooh! Is this an Episcopalian version of Coetibus Anglicanorum? Is Bishop Andrus parking his tanks on the Castel Gandolfo lawn? Doesn’t this sound awfully like sheep-rustling and crossing borders, which we were told were the sins that cried to Heaven for vengeance?

“It is our Christian duty to take stands in public or from our pulpits when others — especially those of our own faith — are in error”

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

I was going to ask would Bishop Andrus be attending the installation. He is? Oh man, I will probably have to scrounge around online for some kind of livestream of the event just for this (Rocco Palmo, here I come for details!). At the very least, I’m sure his vestments will be fabulous.

Now Don, you know perfectly well, rose-coloured vestments are only to be worn on Laetare and Gaudete Sundays.

Why does he feel the need to even bring this up? Do some of his flock require a fainting couch because he’ll be attending so he needs to explain himself to the delicate flowers?

Self -indulgent tool.

Andrus only needs to open his philandering arms and I’m sure good, pledge-paying Romans will just RUSH into Episcopagan pews all over his diocese.

If I were the new Archbishop, I’d simply decline any contact with Andrus.

Exactly. Psalm 1: “Blessed be the man who goeth not in the counsel of the unrighteous.”

Just wondering… Just how much jack, scratch, filthy lucre (fruit) did all this “work toward” the MDG, which Marc mentions, bring in? Knowing the Episcopal penchant for endless committees, meetings, study groups, and generally fruitless activity, I’ll bet not much. And what there was probably came from the Catholics.

Bishop Cordileone: RUN from any contact with this self important parasite.

What a gracious welcome from Bishop Andrus!

I haven’t heard such self-centered dreck since the last Obama fund-raising speech!

This is what +Andrus considers working together? My advice to Salvatore Cordileone is this, “Love them but don’t sleep with the enemy.”

Perhaps Archbishop Cordileone might mention that he will be pleased to work with the bishop of an ecclesial community that enthusiastically supports the brutal and lethal oppression of unborn children.

The one comment under Bp. Andrus missive was by a “Pilgrimbishop”, whose profile reads thus:

I was ordained deacon and priest in the Orthodox Church and make bishop in the Reformed Church Tradition in an Intentional Eucharistic Community.

Make of that what you will.

“Intentional Eucharistic Community.”

They only say Mass on purpose? Who says it through oversight or negligence?

IEC’s? Looks like boilerplate progressivism in a new package:

http://www.intentionaleucharisticcommunities.org/gathering/%282009-03-15%29_program-summary-overview.pdf

They only say Mass on purpose? Who says it through oversight or negligence?

A little googling seems to indicate that “IEC’s” are the usual progressivist suspects operating under a different name. The tip off is not using articles like “being church”.

Okay, I know numbers are meaningless on their own without context, but a comparison of the two dioceses:

Episopal Diocese of California – 6 deaneries, 80 congregations (parishes? or is “single church on its own” count in as well?), 27,000 members.

Roman Catholic Archdiocese of San Francisco – 90 parishes, 444,008 members (I love that they counted up to the last eight – and a lot of these are probably notional members as well, that’s why I said numbers alone don’t mean all that much). The best comparison between the two would probably be San Francisco County on its own, but I couldn’t get any specific numbers for membership; it has 5 deaneries, 45 parishes. If that counts as half the membership, then we’re talking 222,004.

So 27,000 versus 200,000; 1990 figure of 0.6% of population of California are Episcopalians versus 2010 figure of 24$ of population of California are Roman Catholics; yeah, I can see why Bishop Andrus would like to retrieve a few stray Catholics who fell down the back of the sofa.

And that’s me finished being snarky – I should also like to withdraw the crack about Bishop Andrus’ vestments, since that was just being a smart-alec and has nothing to do with the substance of the argument.

Be interesting to know what other representatives of faith traditions have been invited to the installation which is being held in the Cathedral of the Assumption, a new building built to replace the old cathedral which was a victim of arson in the 70s and – from what pictures I have been able to scare up online – certainly looks like it. Oh, well, hopefully the liturgy at least will be carried out in an orthodox and reverent fashion to take away from the bad architecture (seriously, have a google and take a look at the ‘sculpture’ suspended over the altar).

CJ writes, “Maybe it’s me but I just don’t see Frisco Roman Catholics going out of their way to work with people who basically think they’re Klansmen.”

In reality, a great many San Francisco Catholics hold views (on certain controversial issues) closer to those of Andrus than to those of their incoming bishop. It’s a complicated place.

Bill, the PECUSA bishop trying to receive communion at a Catholic Mass would be as natural to him as anything. First off, he will try to scam credibility from ANYWHERE, ANYTIME. As for “rules” about that, recall that “open” communion is directly related to “open” marriages. They are anything but rare in PECUSA and once one is exposed to them long enough anything makes sense. Including of course communion of unbaptized — and same sex “marriage”. It’s a disease that doesn’t improve with time. Most likely he’ll get a seat in a front pew, a smile and a nod. He will also dress up *as though* he were part of the service when he knows he isn’t. The active fantasy life of PECUSA clergy is a symptom of the disease too.

After seeing the figures posted by Daniel Muller, it’s clear why Andrus is anxiously thinking about snagging a few disaffected RC’s. With such a low ASA, he really needs more bodies in the pews – and it doesn’t take but 2 or 3 to make a noticeable difference at parish when the average ASA is 100 (8169 diocesan ASA and 80 “parishes”).

But he should have run his comments past KJS first. She’s sure to censure him; remember how indignant she got over the Anglican Ordinariate? Since she’s so convinced pew poaching is bad, Andrus will feel her wrath.

/sarcasm off

Sorry Fuinseoig, you may not retract the vestment comment. Because it was funny.

Alternate headline: “Tick Cusses Out Elephant.”

Andrus: “I am here! I am here! Notice me!”

TEC jumped the shark with the last General Convention. Now its pathetic leaders (sic) are forced to fend for themselves to get back on the media’s radar. Stand back: Foot stomping and self-immolation are next.

Self immolation? Really? Can I watch??

Oh, and Grandp D…
The answer is none at all. As someone once described it, and I paraphrase…

‘The pleasure transient, the price exorbitant, and the position undignified.’

In regards to the comments about PECUSA Bishop Andrus receiving Communion, that’s typically why representatives of non-Catholic Christian traditions and non-Christian faiths are invited to the traditional Evening Prayer (or Vespers) service the night before the official (ordination and) installation of the Bishop. It helps to avoid that situation of a non-Catholic presenting themselves for Communion. If Bishop Andrus wishes to come to the Installation Mass and receive Communion, thereby publicly stating that he accepts and believes all that the Catholic Church proclaims to be true by joining in the sacrament of unity, well then…

He may not want to wear the fabulous vestments, though.

My general impression is that San Francisco Catholics are blessed to be getting a real bishop. May God use him to His glory.

But, oh, that cathedral! Fuinseoig, from Wikipedia:

Due to its resemblance to a large washing machine agitator, the cathedral has been nicknamed “Our Lady of Maytag”.

On another highly irreverent note, when my husband walked past our rector in his new rose vestments, he raised an eyebrow and said, “Pink?” The rector flushed and said, “Rose! Rose!”

At least nobody calls the violet lavender.

I’m sure that just ruins the new Archbishop’s day that a Libchurch apostate doesn’t like him all that much.

Got distracted by the fun.

Andrus comes off sounding like a narcissist who’s being ignored. Foolish.

Surely this Andrus guy must know how inconsequential he and his diocese are. The archbishop would do well to rescind the invitation.

Mark has a point. I’m thinking there are more Episcopalians in the Catholic archdiocese than the TEC diocese.

The assumption being that “Some Catholics may find themselves less at home with Salvatore Cordileone’s installation and they may come to The Episcopal Church. We should welcome them as our sisters and brothers.” i.e. the outlook is one way traffic from the troglodytes to the enlightened ones. After all the enlightened ones have chucked out all the principles that identify the Christian Church and invented a Progressive Inclusive and Diverse Organization. How soon Communion for Muslims Buddhists Jews etc?

I suppose it is impossible to imagine the traffic will be the other way with a leader who lives up to his name: Cordileone or Heart of a Lion when it comes to preaching the gospel of Jesus Christ without fear of Modernism and the Progressives.

Two points:

St Francis is ours. There is no way he would approve of this idiot and his organization.

What is the total of Andrus followers as against that of Cordileone? If as I suspect the numbers are grossly in favour of Cordileone I regard this as a cry of despair by Andrus against the appointment of such a formidable foes.

Katherine, the vestments are meant to be rose, as in the mauve shade like old roses such as this one (appropriately, Cardinal de Richelieu) – basically, a lighter shade of the violet vestments of Lent and Advent.

Unfortunately, modern interpretations have taken “rose” as equivalent to “Barbie Doll Pink”.

Ed the Roman, I think that as Bishop Andrus is not a concelebrant, he will not turn up in vestments but in choir dress – unless he does a Bishop Schori when she was invited to Southwark Cathedral and requested not to wear her mitre: process in with the crosier and mitre carried before him?

LaVallette, figures for Bishop Andrus’s diocese are around 27,000 and for Archbishop Cordileone’s archdiocese, something north of 400,000 (the press release says they have half a million).

I know this is petty, but having experienced Bp. Andrus as suffragan in our diocese, I really hope somebody here goes to the installation and reports on whether he tries to take communion.

[...] San Franciscans to dump that dumb ol’ Catholic morality for Piskie Whateverism.Take it away, Chris Johnson! How did such a jerk get to be an Episcopal bishop and such a rude slam pass muster with the [...]

Good Karma:

http://www.episcopalcafe.com/lead/other_churches/breaking_bishop_marc_andrus_de.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+episcopalcafe+%28Episcopal+Cafe%29

[...] Episcopalian “Bishop” Hits Passive-Aggressive Home Run – Christopher Johnson, MCJ [...]

As to Andrus’ remark [emphasis added]

“especially those of our own faith“

I would humbly suggest that his embedded assumption is, at best, highly questionable.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

[...] a Catholic bishop?) I’ll let the incomparable Christopher Johnson, Anglican Investigator do the heavy lifting, but here are some excerpts:We can and must both work together for the world’s good, and it [...]

Andrus, more badger than bishop, is merely clawing at the earth out of some desperate attempt to draw attention to himself and to fill his vacant pews.

Andrus has just made it a whole lot easier for the last remaining evangelicals and catholic-minded Episcopalians in his midst to see the TEC for what it is: a spiritually bankrupt society led by small minded individuals who routinely abandon the Gospel to embrace the upside down mores of contemporary society.

Episcopals “siblings” of the Church? There are many ways to describe the relationship but surely this is not one of them.

In the Roman Catholic Church we are taught that the Church’s job among many is to transform in a radical way the secular world, not the other way around.

If the secular world was so good none of us would need religious values at all.

Get a grip Bishop. It is possible to still love a person and not like their behavior.

Andrus the politician. This proclamation reminds me of Obama and the Unions. There would be hell to pay if he didn’t tow the line to the radical element. He may have already been coached. All under the guise of “charity”.
Imagine, having the arrogance to try to teach a legitimate Altar Christus what Christ teaches.
Nevertheless, I pray for the good Bishop Cordileone every day by name. No easy assignment.

We shouldn’t deny entrance to all God’s creatures, but those of us with healthy minds must fine ways to heal all those with mental disorders.