Who awakened His Eminence, Cardinal Mahony? He has now reaped that which I understand he earlier sowed. I trust (but not enough not to also pray and hope) that his eyes are now permanently open to the truth.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

Those who love the Constitution unfailingly reject tribalism (=identity politics). One can hope that His Eminence has recognized this.

I think it is ironic that the church, which many think is restrictive, is the one standing up for our freedoms. I guess It means that being a slave to Christ is perfect freedom.

“I guess It means that being a slave to Christ is perfect freedom.” You betcha.

Wow! Most forceful episcopal statement yet! Now, if he will, and it sounds like he will, bend his efforts to persuade the Hispanic communities with whom he tried to develop a close relationship, that voting for this incumbent Democrat is not in their best interest, well, maybe he can help put this blue state closer to the “in play” column in November.

Not going to happen, Trespinos. The Catholic Church in the US (and elsewhere, for all I know) is too wedded to the welfare state as a stand-in for Christian charity to ever fully part ways with the Democratic party. They can curse and revile Obama until the cows come home, but he’ll probably promise them a modification of the policy, or the elimination of it, and they’ll stupidly believe him and vote for him. Then, come the election, if Obama wins (God forbid!), he will blow off the Catholics and reinstate the original policy.

too wedded to the welfare state as a stand-in for Christian charity

Well that just depends, doesn’t it?

Most European (West & East) countries are legally Christian, with an established church and state religion.

New Zealand’s welfare state was explicitly described a “Applied Christianity” — a bit of a surprise given that NZ is the most secular of all “Western” countries.

You don’t have to be an high tory to think that First Amendment is a mess.

Here’s the Muslim Baroness Warsi quoted in that famously Christian paper the Guardian: the best way to encourage social harmony is to put Christianity at the centre of public life

Anglican pop quiz. Who said:

it is impossible to regard abortion as anything other than the deliberate termination of a human life.

Whether it is a matter of evidence about foetal sensitivity to outside stimuli (including pain), the nature of foetal consciousness, or the expanding possibilities of saving early foetal life outside the womb, the trend is inexorably towards a sharper recognition of the foetus as a natural candidate for “rights”

Sinner: It is not true that most European countries have established churches or religions, certainly as I understand the word “established” in this context. The remaining state churches are all Protestant (England, Norway, Netherlands, Sweden, Denmark) with the possible exception of Russia, where the Orthodox are flirting with that status it would seem, and Greece. To the best of my knowledge, none of the predominantly Catholic countries have established churches.

The Romans chose to dance with the Devil and are now all knotted-up because he refuses to give them a ride home from the satanic dance.

The homosexual, Cardinal Bernadin, started all of this with his foolish “seamless garment” theory, which placed abortion on the same level as government paid-for breakfasts for elementary school students.

Combine that with the cover-up of the homosexual predators by the Roman homosexual bishops, and they reap what they sow.

As my Uncle Frank used to say, “If you go into the pig yard, you’re gonna get pigshiite on your boots.”

Millions of unborn children are dead and Roman bishops keep giving Communion to Pelosi, Kerry and Biden.

Thank God I left the Roman Church for Russian Orthodoxy years ago. At least we don’t celebrate Stalin’s birthday or Margaret Sanger’s birthday as Feast Days.

To the best of my knowledge, none of the predominantly Catholic countries have established churches.

France of course is strongly secular – from their revolution, and the inspiration for the first amendment. Germany will collect church tax for both Catholic and Lutheran churches. Most Southern European countries, and Poland, have concordats with the Vatican.

After all, what’s on the EU flag?

Sinner, at a guess, Rowan Williams.

I do a lot of reading and know quite a few western Europeans personally. My impression is that the “Christianity” of those countries is form only. This applies to both Protestant and Catholic countries, with a few exceptions .

“After all, what’s on the EU flag?”

Oh, oh, I know this one! It’s the twelve gold stars on a blue background, which do not reflect the number of member states (so the number of stars was not increased as the EU got larger).

Twelve was chosen after the original design had fifteen stars, then it was suggested that each member state have a star which made thirteen and that wasn’t acceptable, so they settled on twelve for various reasons – one of which is a delight and a joy to those whose theology included the kind of plot of the “Left Behind” series of novels – the European AntiChrist – Marian imagery!

Yes, the designer (or co-designer) of the flag admitted that one of the ideas he had for twelve stars was the imagery in Revelation of the woman clothed with the sun, standing on the moon, wearing a crown of twelve stars. Also, the flag was adopted on 8th December, the Feast of the Immaculate Conception.

So, Katherine, you were on the right track with Rowan Williams, but not quite.

I second Tonestaple.
The president knows that a solid majority of nominal Roman Catholics in this country disagree with their own bishops on the underlying issue.
He does not believe that they will understand or care about abstract arguments on “liberty.”
He does not believe he will actually lose many votes because of this putsch against religious freedom.
I think he believes this, and I think he is almost certainly correct.
Attacking churches is, politically, an almost cost-free way to energize his base. It will annoy only his already most motivated opponents. An extra handful irrelevant left-wing Catholic intellectuals are a small loss.
The press likes this story because:
1.) They love a show
2.) They also know that this will not actually hurt Obama at all.
Far from being a “miscalculation,” this move is a net win for him as he exposes how “dangerous,” “out of touch,” and “oppressive,” even the most politically liberal actual believers are.
Real believers (as distinct from merely cultural Catholics, Baptists, Jews, etc.) are “un-American,” “unreasonable,” “fanatics,” and are against “love,” and “helping people.” They have no legitimate place in the body politic.
Got the message yet?

Don:

The Orthodox aren’t exactly perfect, either:

http://www.pokrov.org

The bishops will continue to affirm that this is an abortion issue. That’s a non-starter with the vast majority of Catholics (and many others). Simple as that.

Pace Mike, but I don’t think a single bishop has affirmed that “this is an abortion issue.” See, for example, Bishop Donald Wuerhl (sp?) of Washington, D.C. The “HotAir” web site has the clip of his recent Fox News interview. Like Mahony, he argues on First Amendment “Establishment clause” grounds.

Sinner, at a guess, Rowan Williams

of course. life member of SPUC, etc etc.

and the EU flag question is unrelated – but you’re right: the blue is Mary’s color and the stars are her crown.

Don Janousek, I see something pushed your buttons hard. Here and on other blogs, I’m really disheartened by the hate that this issue is bringing up. Sinner’s comments have less spittle flying from them than yours.

What is that saying about lying down with dogs and getting up with fleas?

The Roman hierarchy have flirted with statest politicians for far too long, refusing to recognize where there “social programs” were heading.

The Federal Government should never have been in the “War on Poverty” business. That was – and is – a job for the indiviual states to address.