Most telling is that that the giving is now dropping as well. When membership starts to drop, at first a church loses a lot of deadwood, people who were not giving, and to the extent it loses people who were giving, the dedicated core step up and give more to make up the difference. You could see that happening in TEC in the first half of the decade, membership and attendance declining but giving staying pretty flat. Now there’s three straight years of absolute decline in giving, and four of decline relative to inflation. Serious givers are leaving and those who are staying are tapped out. That means real budget cuts, program reductions, staff cuts. Those who stay on now will need to be truly dedicated.

The question is, “dedicated” to what? I just look at my former parish. Since 2003 they have lost 2/3 of their membership. They no longer have a Sunday School program, for either adults or children. They have no musical director. They had no rector for 3 years (they just got someone in to take the job). They have no young families, they have no children. As one of my friends who still goes there says, “the congregation is now made up of gays and seniors on life support.” So I don’t see that church lasting more than a couple more years before it closes its doors. Which is a good thing, since it was trying to spread a false Gospel. And this was once the largest and most prosperous parish in the diocese.

As someone has said on this site many times, “follow the money.”

Here is my attempt at doing that: a) given that TEC knows that it is tanking, and b) given that most parishes are worth more to them as a real-estate sale than in annual apportionments, then why don’t they just liquidate and sell buildings for top dollar to the ACNA parishes? Why are they selling them at a discount to Islamic groups?

The obvious explanation (which is what Schori admitted in the recent interview) is that they don’t want to encourage ACNA because that would speed up the decline. But why don’t they want to speed up the decline? And please don’t say that they are concerned for the salvation of their parishioners – no evidence of that.

Here are some theories:
i) they are worried that if the decline accelerates they will have to pay severence to laid-off priests. In other words they don’t want the income to fall off faster than normal attrition and retirement rates.

ii) a certain amount of their book-value is in upcoming bequests from elderly members. If membership declines too much faster than the death rate, they will have to derate those assets.

iii) real-estate sales benefit the synod-office folks, not the parishes. The synod offices still need support from the parishes and are willing to take decreased real-estate income to show that they are supporting the parishes.

This is what happens when you take the most beautiful liturgy in Western Christendom (1928 BCP) and replace it with trite, banal, caterwauling Rod McKuen nonsense (1979 BCP).

Pretty soon, there won’t be enough people left to make up a good “praise music” band.

Given that the inflation rates cited on the “Fast Facts” Sheets are woefully understated (the US Government is lying to us again. Surprise!), their actual income decline is even worse.

Does anyone here really believe the inflation rate for 2010 was 1.5% ? (crickets…….)

The higher ups in TEC must be smoking some powerful stuff if this does not concern them.

Fools and idiots!

Now they are fixing to try to destroy the one diocese that was actually growing at a rate above the population increase; that diocese being the Episcopal Diocese of South Carolina.

“…a good “praise music” band.”

Oxymoron Alert!

Michael D:

“why don’t they just liquidate and sell buildings for top dollar to the ACNA parishes? Why are they selling them at a discount to Islamic groups?”

Because this is not about property, or gays, or even the episcopalians. This is about Christianity, and Satan infecting all of the denominations with his Other Gospel. All they are truly interested in is driving the episcopalians into the ground and, once they are on life support, moving on to the PCUSA, the Methodists and the Lutherans, which they have already done.

No matter your group or denomination, they are coming. There is already a pro-gay rights formed up in Orthodoxy called “Axios!” that is pushing for “dialogue” and “conversation.”

Excuse me: they’re not coming. They’re here.

I think an understated giving problem is the knowledge that many of those who remain orthodox in TEC know where their money is going and don’t want to contribute to the lawsuits of fellow Christians. I am surprised that TEC still has an “asking” and not an assessment. There is another factor about to kick in. Where TEC has erected a faux diocese in place of a genuine one to enable the law suits, the “loans” from TEC will be coming due in 2012 for the Episcopal Diocese of San Joaquin. Let’s see how patient TEC is about this. I think they thought they would have won the lawsuits by now and that would have allowed the fake diocese to pay off the loans to TEC. Every fake diocese TEC erected is in serious financial trouble. There are so few parishioners left in some parishes, even though they have taken possession of the property, they can’t pay for the utilities.

TEC is being hoist by its own petard, to use that marvelous phrase. Maybe the dictionary folks are going to have to use “Episcopal Church Victory” in place of the classic “Pyrrhic victory”. Probably better so; nobody understands the classics any more. Nothing like a fine US of A elementary and secondary education! Brings out the best in us all!

>>“…a good “praise music” band.”

I have walked out of a couple of TEC services, as well as eventually TEC. When I was looking around for a new Anglican home, I attended a local church with a 7:45 AM service. I was NOT ready for praise music, good or bad, at that hour of the morning. After a few minutes, I realized this was not going to work, and left. Don’t misunderstand; they are great faithful people. I would chose them over TEC, were they the only stylistic choice, but fortunately they are not.

The sad part of this story is that parishes in western PA who negotiate with the TEC Diocese will have to promise to have nothing to do with the Anglican diocese for five years if they want to keep their church buildings. Some have done that, some have walked away.

I hope everyone realizes I was being sarcastic when I used the phrase: ….a good “praise music” band.

As a 1928 Episcopalian I only support hymnody in church. I don’t support cheap music – a category in which I count “praise music”.

As most of you are aware, the Charts got updated a few days ago and it appears that 60 is the new 100. Many, many churches are hovering in the 40 – 60 ASA bracket and quite a few are drawing only 10 – 20 people on a Sunday.

Christianity is declining in America. Why all the apparent joy that the Episcopal Church is part of that decline?
I an constantly amazed at the unchristian attitude of many christians.
I submit that your attitude to other christians is the prime reason for the christian churches decline. Who wants to join a faith that argues with itself all the time.

John: the perception is that the Episcopal Church is mortally infected by a parasite that is feeding off that organization’s decaying body while attacking the true Body of Christ and drawing unsuspecting believers to their doom. We believe it is too late to save the organization, so we are just cheering for those who can escape, and cheering for the rapid decline of the rotting body so that there is one less threat in our midst.

I suggest that the church is declining because of the parasite, not because of those who preach against the parasite.

Who wants to join the faith? Those that the Spirit calls.

What Michael D said. Plus, show me a faith that doesn’t “argue with itself all the time.” Have you checked out the conflict among Jewish groups? The battles among various mostly Orthodox groups over who controls shrines in the Holy Land? The strong disagreements that “progressive” Catholics have with the Holy See? The huge variety of Hindu and Buddhist devotions, and their sometimes aggressive attitudes towards each other? And, last but by no means least, check out the death toll from intra-Muslim fighting in recent decades.

I don’t, in fact, rejoice at the decline of TEC. It used to be my church until it was pulled out from under my feet. I mourn.

@Kelso,

I would respectfully suggest that your characterization of the 1979′s new liturgies as

“Hellip;trite, banal, caterwauling Rod McKuen nonsense“

is an egregious slur on the (largely untalented) Mr. McKuen. It would not suprise me greatly were he to learn of your libelous comment, and take such legal steps to recover damages from you as might be warranted in the circumstances.

Pax et bonum,
Keith Töpfer

Luke suggests that if you are not welcome you should leave and wipe the dust from your feet not hang around on the other side of the street and throw mud.

Why not take his advice?

Telling the truth and “throwing mud” are two totally different things, John.

And I was told by former clergy that it’s not just OK sometimes, but imperative that we fight against our adversary, even to death, lest we leave those unwilling and/or unable to fight (especially the little ones) to suffer or be led astray. And that’s exactly what these people are doing, whether they want to admit to Satan as their leader or not.

You ask Robbie the question of where is the flood of progressives.

If you look at the Diocese of New Hampshire stats you see that over the past 10 years they have lost about 2,400 members or close to 14%, and ASA has dropped from approx. 5000 to 4000 or 20%. The curves show no increases after 2003 except in revenue.

Martial Artist: You are correct. Not even Mr McKuen deserves to be tarred with that brush! The undersigned will plead this apology for any libel action.

Well yes, John, my ex-bishop certainly encouraged us to leave, and leave quickly.

1 Cor 5 offers another response: What business is it of mine to judge those outside the church? Are you not to judge those inside? God will judge those outside. “Expel the wicked person from among you.”

Paul did not hesitate to call-down the wicked behaviour of those who claimed to be Christians, and neither should we hesitate to do so.

Michael D -

I will have to take exception with your last remark. It is true that Paul did write what you have quoted. However, I believe that he was exhorting the leadership in the Corinthian Church, not the general membership.

TEC’s problems began when the bishops refused to “defend the faith once handed down to the saints.” They allowed revisionists priests to teach error. From revisionist priests come revisionists bishops. Thus a vicious cycle began.

Secondly, the laity did not hold their bishops accountable with the few tools that they had at their disposal. But generally speaking TEC’s problems began with lax leadership.

For all of its faults, and there are plenty to choose from, the Roman Catholics Church does not have that problem. It may take a while for things to be righted, but eventually, they get it done.

The same thing applies to the Orthodox. They are still trying to keep the faith.

Allen Lewis. Please! The Catholic church did an abominable job in handling pedophilia within it’s ranks.

Why does John ask questions to which he already knows the answers? He’s either a troll, or incredibly stupid, or maybe some combination of the two, but it’s kind of getting tiresome. If he really cared about these issues, he’d be out protesting at Wallstreet. How ’bout it John? Are you going to continue to be a hypocrite, or will you actually stand up for your beliefs and do something?

The sooner TEC dies the better. Its mission now is to deceive the world about Christianity. It is trading on the remaining prestige of the organization to promote a false gospel.

I think for example of the debate on California’s proposition 8 (to ban SSM). I heard on public radio one morning during that campaign a story that gave a couple minutes of air time to two Episcopal bishops opposing the measure. Afterwards, a terse mention from the reporter that “some other churches, including the Catholic Church, support the measure.”

To those who know the relative membership of the Episcopal and Catholic churches this kind of “balance” in reporting is laughable. But to the great majority who don’t, the impression that TEC is some kind of significant church lingers. And it is very useful in creating the impression that Christians are evenly divided on hot button social issues like abortion and SSM. “On the one hand, Catholics, Baptists, and Evangelicals are against. But on the other hand, Episcopalians, Presbyterians, and the UCC are for.” With the unspoken implication that the former group may be numerous, but they are the unwashed, uneducated rabble that public radio listeners wouldn’t have anything to do with, while the latter are the nice respectable people whose kids play soccer with your kids.

It is that aura of respectability that is at stake for TEC’s leaders, and that is why they do not want to give up their status as “the American branch of the 80 million worldwide Anglican Communion.”

Progressive Smurf. I’m not a troll so I must be incredible stupid and a hypocrite, according to your limited choices. Do you enjoy being incredible crass and arrogant?
I don’t know the answer to that question but I’m sure you do.

Remember when the Presiding Bishop claimed that ACNA and other conservative Anglican groups were trying to put TEC out of business? TEC’s own statistics indicate it’s already doing a pretty good job of putting itself out of business.

Pittsburgh: Did you really think you would find justice in the court system? And now look what you’ve done. You used to be a vibrant diocese. Now you are bickering with losers. Just leave. Let them have all the property. What were you thinking? I am a clown, but I’m glad you’ve come to your senses.