Posted by Christopher Johnson | Thursday, July 7th, 2011 | Uncategorized | 62 Comments
Nobody, and I mean nobody, does pompous, arrogant self-righteousness better than liberal Protestants. Via David “He Reads ‘On Faith’ So You Don’t Have To” Fischler comes this drivel from the Chicago Theological Seminary’s Susan Brooks Thistlethwaite criticizing a Catholic bishop for being…well…a Catholic bishop:
How can we expect other nations around the world to create and sustain pluralistic democracies when prominent religious leaders in the United Sates, such as Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio of New York, fail to grasp the fundamentals of this concept?
Because it’s not the job of “prominent religious leaders” to help “create and sustain pluralistic democracies?”
Elected officials represent the many different people who elected them, not their particular religious organizations.
Really? I thought all American political parties were public extensions of Christian churches. Sumbitch.
The private religious doctrines of these legislators’ faith communities cannot dictate their political positions.
Sue, of course, wouldn’t have written anything at all if New York’s Catholic bishops had gone all squishy and Episcopalian, if you’ll pardon the redundancy, and come out as a body in support of this bill. “Spiritual leadership” is when you agree with me. “Political grandstanding” is when you don’t.
That would be to effectively “establish” their church’s view as the law of the land, something the Constitution forbids.
Or in DiMarzio’s case, they would be telling Roman Catholics what Roman Catholic doctrine is. Twit.
But Bishop DiMarzio’s position goes even further over the line that should separate church and state when he advocates shunning all state officials for this vote on marriage equality. “I have asked my collaborators not to bestow or accept honors, nor to extend a platform of any kind to any state elected official, in all our parishes and churches for the foreseeable future.”
Sue, the term you’re looking for here is “moral courage.” DiMarzio seems to be saying that legislators, Roman Catholic or otherwise, can violate Roman Catholic doctrine all they care to but if they do, one of the prices they should be prepared to pay is that they don’t get free spiritual cover anymore. So who’s really crossing the church-state line here, hot shot?
One issue, then, will dictate that these churches should shun all elected officials, apparently on any issue and into the foreseeable future.
I wish the Catholics had done it with abortion back in the day but better late than never.
That’s not pluralism, that’s exclusivism. In effect, according to this bishop, “any state official” has to play by the rules of the Catholic Church. That’s not just crossing the line that should separate church and state, it’s drawing a line in the sand that elected officials are not supposed to cross.
Sue? Is a Brooklyn Baptist obligated to obey the Roman Catholic Bishop of Brooklyn? What about a Floral Park Presbyterian? Or a Rockaway Beach Muslim? Or a Montauk Jew? Or a Binghamton whatever Matt Kennedy calls himself these days?
Or a New Paltz Unitarian? Or a Nyack Episcopalian? Or an Oyster Bay member of the Assemblies of God? Or a Plattsburgh Lutheran? Or a Poughkeepsie Methodist? Or a Schaghticoke Ethical Culturist? Or a Schenectady atheist?
Do you see me working, Sue? Dear LORD, it should be illegal to be that stupid.
Drawing a “line in the sand” preventing marriage equality for LGBT Americans is not where the American people are going. In fact they are going the other way, favoring reducing barriers to marriage equality.
Last I checked, God doesn’t have a Congress. Just sayin’.
It is also not where the Catholic rank and file is going in terms of marriage equality.
As of May, 2011, Gallup reports that the majority of Americans now favor allowing gay citizens to legally marry. Interestingly, in the breakdown, Gallup notes “support for legal same-sex marriage is higher…among Catholics than among Protestants.”
So what? I suppose that if you were to poll them, more Catholics than Protestants(since there are more Catholics than Protestants) would be down with banging their best friend’s hot wife on a regular basis. It’s called setting limits, declaring that some things are wrong regardless of how many people enjoy them, that kind of thing.
Americans Catholics now seem to know, as this bishop does not, that the sorry state of heterosexual marriage is not going to be fixed by continuing to deny marriage equality to lesbians, gay men, bisexuals and transgender people.
Which is not the issue and never was.
Therefore, not only is Bishop DiMarzio taking a stand that is “over the line” in terms of the proper relationship between church and state in a religiously pluralistic democracy, he’s also out of step, taking a drastic public position based on outmoded and discredited ideas that many Catholic laypeople (as well as other Americans) no longer believe.
Susie? You have a connection to some sort of “theological seminary,” right? So I assume that you’ve had some exposure to this:
Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it.
It’s like I said before. The Creator of the universe doesn’t have or need a Congress.