“And let’s face it, Big Narcissism would be perfectly okay with Johnny Rotten delivering the invocation as long as the Sex Pistols lead singer was acceptable on The Single Most Important Moral Issue In The History Of The World.”

Hey, they could get a worse speaker, though granted, there would be high probability – no, indeed, certainty – of foul and abusive language.

Seeing as how Johnny has managed to stay married to the same woman for thirty years and had a pop at Ray Manzarek’s advice to young people to “f___ their brains out”, instead recommending that they should get an education, it is not unlikely that he might be too conservative and hide-bound for Susan and her friends

Ho hum (yawn) or Bah Humbug, who cares what VGR, SR, and Chane think about Rick Warren or anything else. Not much of interest there.

An interesting thing, though, is the new compass rose posted over at Virtueonline beside an article about the Anglican Church of North America.

I’d like to know if it’s the real thing and where to find a larger picture of it. Maybe a new website will be unveiled shortly.

Isn’t it interesting how the “inclusive” crowd would like those who disagree with them to be excluded from public life.

I am vastly amused by the presentation of Rick Warren as a Bible-thumping, fire-and-brimstone, old-tyme-religion type when he is under fire from the more conservative of his denomination for being too touchy-feely, self-help-promoting, not emphasising the Gospel and salvation enough.

I don’t exactly know Rick Warren’s views on evolution, but they seem to be more of the kind that he believes God created the world rather than it all just happened to coagulate out of a cloud of cosmic dust. Him and the Pope, both. Though yeah, I guess the Pope is exactly the type of bad religion the Inclusive Church doesn’t want given a pulpit at the Presidential Inauguration

Seriously, though: I am not familiar with American inaugurations, but I imagine Rick’s part will be something along the lines of asking God (no mentions of Jesus) to bless America and the new President and help them all to be happy, good, just and kind – nothing anyone could object to, whatever their religious belief. Somehow I doubt he’ll start speaking in tongues, calling on all present to invite Jesus into their hearts as their personal Lord and Saviour, or tell all the non-Christians that they’re going straight to Hell.

Fuinseoig – you’re exactly right (as you will see) which is why the hysterical reaction of the piskie left is so ridiculous.

Todd

If I may be cynical… I think that Obama is intentionally igniting the culture wars. Think about it:

Homosexuals are a statistically insignificant voting bloc, and Evangelicals aren’t. So, Obama decides to do the greatest symbolic bridge-builder he can – one which does nothing to determine policy, such as passing the Freedom of Choice Act the second he takes office (radical feminists, apparently, ARE a key voting bloc).

Until he puts a conservative in a position of power in his Administration besides Gates (and really, Obama knows he can’t let Iraq fail) and appoints judges who don’t attempt to rewrite the Constitution, then I will fail to see how much Obama “takes seriously” views other than his own radical agenda.

Years ago my son was complaining how the world just was not revolving quite to his liking. I solemnly told him “every morning I look out the door to see if there is a line of people waiting to kiss my butt. So far the sidewalk is quite empty”

I think those who are throwing themselves onto the fainting couch over Obama’s choice should remember that fact. Sheesh what a bunch of delicate sensibilities this lot has.

Homosexuals are a statistically insignificant voting bloc, and Evangelicals aren’t. So, Obama decides to do the greatest symbolic bridge-builder he can

Actually, he said numerous times during the campaign that he opposes gay “marriage.” I think he’s ok with the civil-union route, but he’s against gay “marriage.” So I really don’t get why people are trying to read tea leaves from Warren’s pick. They can just go to Obama’s words.

Susan’s tantrum, coupled with Gene Robinson’s shocking admission about what god he worships suggest a slipping of the masks and deviation from the talking points, revealing that this really is a religion about gay sex. The people are desperately unhappy in the success of their cause: it’s never enough. All opposition must be silenced, marginalized, demonized. Wow! That’s just their complaints about what people did to lesbigays, isn’t it? How much rage can we expect after their triumph is completed next summer at their General Convention?

But it’s not just the revisionists in desperate straits. T1.9 is becoming a sour cacophony of bitter Episcopalians, presided over by a crew increasingly rigid, narrow and, well, sour: no humor, no perspective. I gather the same is true of SFIF. Does CaNN still exist? I found something called “The Webelf Report”, but the last post was in September. Are any active Episcopalians reading this site? MCJ commenters seem to be mostly ex-Episcopalians, Catholics, and Orthodox. ACI seems content to issuem, in dense prose, arguments that, it seems to me, agree with Peter Lee that schism is worse than heresy. At best, schism is not yet warranted, despite all of the heresies. What will they be saying when GC ’09 makes official those heresies?

We all know TEC is in a numerical and financial collapse; it appears they are suffering intellectually and… what should I say? They are just so unhappy. Every domestic diocese, liberal and conservative, lost ASA from ’06 to ’07. Every diocese that gained members lost ASA which more than offset the membership gain, usually several times over. The two exceptions are New York, which gained 668 members but lost 663 ASA and South Carolina, which gained 628 members but lost 260 ASA. Membership overall declined 1.9%, while ASA declined 4.9%. They aren’t just losing members by attrition: active members are leaving. I remember writing a similar statement last year, or the year before, when the ASA rate of decline was less that twice the decline in membership. Again, I stress that these numbers are valid in the conservative diocese as well. Springfield lost 10.1% ASA, Dallas lost 8.3%, and Ft. Worth lost 3%.

When decline is this pervasive, and the atmosphere is this bitter, particularly among the conservatives, what is there to say? A year from now, after GC ’09 has put the finishing touches on the revolution, will there be anything left of the lovely, whimsical, happy Episcopalianism I remember? Will there be any charity left? Or only obsessed gays doing what they can to drive away anyone who disagrees with them, and inert creedal conservatives presiding over parishes no one wants to join.

We differ on Palestine and I’ll leave it at that but again regarding Episcopalianism, by Gene you’ve got it.

BTW Johnny Rotten agrees with much of my politics.

I should like to point out that what SR thinks is a great number of people is obviously based on the insignificant numbers gathered in the ECUSA/TEC/GCC/EO-PAC. If every homosexual in the nation at 1-3% of the population wrote in, it would be a mere 3 to 9 million people (population assumed =300,000,000). If every living ECUSAn wrote in it would be less than 2 million.

Somehow, I don’t think the O-man is going to sweat this either way. But let SR think he will if it makes her feel better. “O-man, look! Here’s a letter from California that whines a much as the one from New Hampshire. Reckon there’s a connection?”

“I feel a need for CHANGE, America!”

Oh Dear!!! Does the New Messiah have clay feet after all?

Warren did not back the assassination of Ahmadinejad. Look at the video yourself. He was questioned by someone who apparently did, and responded that we must not give in to Ahmadinejad but that force must be used if necessary to prevent this man from getting what he wants, e.g. wiping Israel off the face of the map.

The first time I heard this cited was from Bishop Chane, perhaps he started this meme.

If we indeed are going to begin playing this game, I suppose we can say that Bishop Chane and Susan Russel advocate wiping Israel off the face of the map. And then, why is she complaining about abortion being compared to the holocaust, if the holocaust wasn’t really such a bad thing anyways? Oh, perhaps she means just the 5,000 to 15,000 that were incarcerated was a bad thing, but not the 6,000,000 Jews. And to play the game further: How about gay Jews? Is there a plus/minus thing going here?

No, we don’t need to be playing these rhetoric games.

The crisis of interpretation and understanding of language became acute in TEC when Bishop Schori got away with her deceitful claims on her resumé of accomplishments published for the election of the Presiding Bishop. It seems that today, only a very scant reference to a fact rather far away is now sufficient in TEC to make a walloping claim with very real potential for hate-mongering. Schori’s deceit did no harm other than to unfairly disadvantage the other candidates and to get her into the job (which I suppose in itself has done enough harm to TEC), but it did not accuse or stir up hate. Bishop Chane’s remarks very well could stir up hate. I will not be so direct regarding Rev. Russel since it has become a custom in the US to allow minority groups to use unchecked invective, which in a way shows how little we actually respect them, unfortunately. We seem to have the tendency of casting minorities into the role of the victim and the “wise prophetic fool,” whose utterances are not expected to reflect either civilty or propriety. This is a sad position for anyone to be in.

“and…and.. he actually BELIEVES in this JESUS nonsense! How GAUCHE!”

Given where the big money still comes from in Piskie parishes, I’m not sure that going after Mr. Obama with a charge that he is too conservative is necessarily in TEC’s self interest. The President-elect has done TEC an enormous favor. Had he selected either Chane, VGR, or KJS, the two who were not chosen would have been so jealous TEC would split into 3 churches.
Mr. Obama is seeking to unite the country. In a time of war and economic turmoil, he is looking for success stories. Not a group of divisive egos who cannot accept those of their own church who disagree with them. Beyond that, Pastor Warren gave Mr. Obama the opportunity to introduce himself to a group of people who would otherwise not engaged with him. He may not have won many votes that day, but I think he may have earned some respect.

BTW-
How many TEC dioceses have a larger ASA than Pastor Warren’s church?

tjmcmahon -

Is 20,000 Pastor Warren’s membership or ASA?

I count 5 dioceses with more than 20,000 ASA:

Massachusetts
Virginia
Los Angeles
New York
Texas

Connecticutt’s at 19,333.

I count another 25 or so with membership higher than 20K.

What is even more enlightening, in all the fits of the vapours that assorted individuals are having, is that it reveals that they did indeed believe the hype.

That is, instead of being a politician (and a Chicago pol, at that – Irish parish pump politics ain’t that much different either side of the pond) who was going to promise the sun, moon and stars to everyone if he thought there was a vote in it, they really did think he was descended from on high to bless the multitudes and would make the halt and the lame leap for joy, the blind to see, the global warming (or cooling) to cool (or warm), and peace on earth would break out as all realised that, no matter colour, race or creed, they were human brothers and sisters.

I stopped believing in the Tooth Fairy and the Easter Bunny quite some time ago. It’s charming to see the sophisticates of TEC still maintaining that child-like belief despite all their vast and extensive educations and life experiences

Yes, they went merrily along believing a politician’s promises mean more than whatever will pull in the punters, and now are outraged when they opened that poke and saw their pig – or not even a pig. And if you expect your letters of protest to do anything, I’m sure there is an enterprising gentleman out there with a bridge to sell you, Jim and Susan and Gene.

Listen, Obama doesn’t give a rap for you lot now that the votes have been counted and he’s got the job. Take this much consolation: he’s only inviting Rick Warren as a sop to the conservatives, and he (or someone on his team) has calculated to a nicety the exact shade of not too conservative on some things, not too liberal on others that the invited pastor needed to be. He’s positioning himself as a centrist, and I for one will be fascinated to observe which campaign promises he actually fulfils and which he didn’t have a bull’s notion of keeping – I have a feeling there will be a lot of “Oh, I’d love to do this, but the state of the economy/the war/public morale is such that it would be too divisive at this time to proceed.”

Realistically, come 2012, what are the gays going to do, vote Republican? Obama knows he owns them. He has absolutely no reason to cater to them. He’s doing the smart thing politically. He’s building bridges to the right. We’re going to see the big partisan battles over issues that matter to him, not over issues that matter to a group he has a lock on.

Does CaNN still exist? I found something called “The Webelf Report”, but the last post was in September.

Here is a Binky update.

Fuinseoig — Are you sure you are an Irish citizen? Because you understand American politics a lot better than many Yanks.

I, myself, am registered as an independent, i.e. affiliated with no political party, since I’m convinced that both major parties are chaired by Satan…

“and backed the assassination of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.”

course she’s ga ga about the new Tom Cruise movie

These fits by the movers and shakers of TEC are just further proof(if any was needed) of their totalitarian mindsets.

It’s all about them

In this case a Presidential Inaugural in a country that can only be described as multi-faith everything must go EXACTLY their way. Or the gnashing of teeth and renting of garments is evident for all to see.

Well, gnash away and rent on. I say. Maybe when they learn Obama does not have to listen to them anymore than any other voting bloc, it will help them to finally see the Truth.

I added a polite comment to her web site, quoting Obama on this issue. Since my opinion differed, it didn’t get published by the “moderator.” Whatever

Thank you, Daniel. Actually, I don’t think Binky elfs for T1.9. He’s much more laid back than those harpies.

Fuinseoig – Americans have a long and honored tradition of confusing the president with a king, and occastionally God (or the devil, as befits one’s politics. Making the presidency our Great Hope, or the Great Scapegoat, as needed, serves our national purpose of avoiding the question of “Who’s really in charge here?”.

I don’t think Binky elfs for T1.9.

No, it seems that he has much better things to do. But he did use to aggregate CaNN if memory serves.

St Louisan:

“I added a polite comment to her web site, quoting Obama on this issue. Since my opinion differed, it didn’t get published by the “moderator.” Whatever”

Give her a few hours. She is is not a censorious as others in the liberal blogosphere. She is a busy person, and sometimes it takes her more than a few hours to catch up with the day’s posts.

OTOH, she may have declined to print your comment.

The Pilgrim,

It is now posted. I’m a lone voice. Ha.

“The more reaction comes in, the more I realize that Barack Obama is handling this Rick Warren situation absolutely brilliantly.”

I agree, and I think he is playing US brilliantly, too, by doing this. Let Warren speak, make us happy, and then put FOCA into law.

Actually, he said numerous times during the campaign that he opposes gay “marriage.” I think he’s ok with the civil-union route, but he’s against gay “marriage.” So I really don’t get why people are trying to read tea leaves from Warren’s pick. They can just go to Obama’s words.

Yes, but he also said that the Sermon on the Mount justified same-sex unions: http://www.cultureandmediainstitute.org/articles/2008/20080304164741.aspx

Also, Obama only PERSONALLY opposes same-sex “marriage” – he opposed Proposition 8 (and similar State-level marriage amendments), wants to repeal the Defence of Marriage Act, has stated he does not believe homosexuality is immoral and has used the abhorrent logic that the Bible condones slavery and therefore its proclamations on homosexuality are questionable: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnmS_vULPxw

I don’t trust Obama any more than I can throw him; I’ll read any damn tea leaves I want!

Obama comment on inviting Rick Warren:

Breibart.com, linked from Drudge

“Obama defended his choice on Thursday, saying that he has also invited Joseph Lowery, a Methodist minister and civil rights leader who supports same-sex marriage and gay rights, to deliver the benediction.

” ‘During the course of the entire inaugural festivities, there are going to be a wide range of viewpoints that are presented. And that’s how it should be, because that’s what America’s about. That’s part of the magic of this country … we are diverse and noisy and opinionated,’ ” Obama said.

MargaretC, since the late Mayor Richard Daley of Chicago of pious, glorious and immortal memory traced his ancestry to a fishing village about six miles west of my home town, I feel I have a certain insight into how Chicago politics under a party heavily influenced by the sea-divided Gael might work

But ST LOUISIAN,
““Obama defended his choice on Thursday, saying that he has also invited Joseph Lowery, a Methodist minister and civil rights leader who supports same-sex marriage and gay rights, to deliver the benediction.”

That represents actual DIVERSITY instead of the ECUSA/TEC/GCC/EO-PAC claim to diversity while doing the thought-police thingy. That’s why the gaygendites are so upset! Someone is actually practicing diversity and not their version of it.
OUCH!

So – is Warren pro-abortion?

The Grahams, Franklin and Billy have already registered their protest to the president-elect for his stance on abortion.

Wonder if Ophra will be part of the inauguration party?