ROCK BOTTOM

Posted by Christopher Johnson | Wednesday, March 17th, 2010 | Uncategorized | 120 Comments

LANGUAGE WARNING: Normally, I keep things as clean as I can around here and expect commenters to do the same.  But the more I think about this, the angrier I get and the less interest I have in censoring myself.  Not saying that it’s going to happen and there won’t be any F-bombs but I might use some language that I normally don’t like to use.

Well, the Episcopal Organization got its lesbian pointy-hat.  No surprise there.  What will happen now?  Not much.  Rowan Williams will furrow his brow, stroke his beard and issue his usual ambiguously obfuscatory circumlocution.  GAFCON will demand that Something Be Done while the Anglican Communion Institute should have another learned paper out any minute now.

Lather, rinse, repeat.

But you know something?  I no longer give a crap.  Remember the Episcopalians prattling on about suing people out of parishes in order to preserve the devotion and witness of Episcopalians of the past for Episcopalians of the future or however the hell the mantra goes?  That line has just been definitively revealed to be what it always was.

Pure and unadulterated bullshit.

Via the Anglican Curmudgeon comes word that the Church of the Good Shepherd of Binghamton, New York, the parish Matt and Anne Kennedy and their friends were sued out of, has been sold by the Episcopal Diocese of Central New York.

To Muslims.

Demonstrating their all-inclusive love, the DCNY has sold the church building of the former Episcopal Church of the Good Shepherd to a Muslim group. You remember the pecusa claims of inclusive love – the kind that puts into contracts that buildings vacated by departing congregations can never be sold back to Anglican congregations. But they have no problem selling buildings to Muslims. As Archbishop Akinola said, these people are demonic. Happily, the Anglican Church of the Good Shepherd is in better buildings further down on Conklin Ave where they continue to proclaim in word and deed the biblical gospel of Jesus Christ.

Matt adds some details

Just learned that the Diocese of CNY sold our former building to Muslims. Heard rumors before but today I passed by and saw that the doors were painted green. There was a crane there removing the cross from the bell-tower and hanging over the back door to the parking lot was the following sign “Islamic Awareness Center.”

The Curmudgeon points out that other churches have done this sort of thing.  But there’s a major difference.  Other churches have sold empty buildings.  But to my knowledge, no allegedly-Christian church has ever gone to court to evict a thriving, Christian parish from its meeting house only to turn around and sell the building to non-Christians.

I don’t know what is more stunning, the effortlessness with which the Episcopalians can lie through their teeth or the corrosive hatred displayed by petty, vindictive little crapweasels like Bishop Gladstone “Skip” Adams toward what are supposed to be fellow Christians, even to the point of letting poor people go hungry:

At midday on Thursday January 22nd, the day after we’d turned in the keys and accounting to the Diocese of Central New York, a parishioner stopped at the old building in order to put up signs on the outside of the windows and on the door, directing people looking for their usual warm meal at our soup kitchen to Sts. Andrew and John Catholic Church just up the street. Msgr. Meaghar had, once more, stepped up and agreed to host the Shepherd’s Bowl temporarily until we found a more permanent location. By 5pm, judging by the footprints in the snow, someone with a key had entered the old building. And all the signs pointing people to the soup kitchen had been taken down. Many of our soup kitchen regulars arrived that evening only to find a dark, cold, locked building. They went away hungry, having no idea that a warm meal was waiting just one block away. Before we lost our building, we’d been the only soup kitchen operating on the south-side of Binghamton on Thursday nights. A good number of people depended on us to make ends meet. What would happen to this program? Was there any way to keep it going long term?

So on one level, Mary Glasspool is irrelevant; the Episcopalians can “consecrate” anyone they like to any of their little offices that they care to.  But I guess I ought to keep on pointing out the depravities of these people so I guess I’ll keep writing about them.  When a group this evil calls itself Christian, lots of innocents might be led astray.

But here’s the deal.  The Anglican Covenant is dead; so-called “two-tier Anglicanism” is dead.  I don’t want to be associated with these people at all.  Anything less than total separation from TEO and its allies by conservative Anglicans is unacceptable.

If “official” conservative Anglicans aren’t willing to demand that and cut ties with Canterbury if they don’t get it, then “official” conservative Anglicanism is completely worthless.  Because even on a theoretical level, the stench is overpowering.

UPDATE: It just gets better and better.  Matt Kennedy reports that the Diocese sold the building to the Muslims, “for about 1/3rd of the price at which it was marketed and what we were willing to pay.”

At BabyBlue’s, Matt writes in the comments:

The fact is that Good Shepherd had doubled in size from 2002 to 2009 when we lost the building despite the poor demographics in town.

And, during negotiations, we offered three times the amount for the property than did the mosque which eventually bought it.

Instead the diocese sued us, kicked us out of the building and my family out of our home, and sold the church building cut rate to those who teach that Jesus is not God, did not truly die, did not rise, and is not Lord.

UPDATE: The former Church of the Good Shepherd.

UPDATE: Red Stick Rant.

Think about that for a minute – The Episcopal Church put an active Christian parish out of their traditional home because that parish believes homosexual practice is a sin… and instead sold it to a faith that believes homosexual practice deserves death.

120 Comments to ROCK BOTTOM

wildiris
March 17, 2010

In my wild youth I once saw the movie, Behind the Green Door. Even today, when I hear a reference to a “green door”, images from the movie still come back to haunt me.

Christopher Hathaway
March 17, 2010

Well, on the bright side, at least Good Shepherd won’t be an Episcopal church.

Priscilla
March 17, 2010

Now, is there any reason left for ANYONE, anyone at all not to question the Christianity of the Episcopal Organization? I am so disgusted I can’t even express it. It was stolen from me when I was a teenager in the late 50’s early 60’s. Now it has been turned to a Muslim enabler. It is insult to injury. All that is left to me is to pray that each of those people will turn from this, and through the Grace of God, find their way to authentic Christianity.

Katherine
March 17, 2010

Nauseating. Simply nauseating. At Kendall Harmon’s site, he notes that today the continuing Quincy clergy were “deposed.” And now, like the Hagia Sophia in Constantinople, Good Shepherd is being converted into a mosque. I read a bit of Matt Kennedy’s story about moving out over at SF. People were sad about leaving items which were memorials and now belonged to the diocese and not to them. And now, whatever the diocese didn’t strip out of the place is to be desecrated by praying though a false prophet.

The “gay” controversy is merely a symptom of the pervasive loss of faith.

FW Ken
March 17, 2010

Chris – If you are angry, you care! Heck, I’m angry nearly 24 years out, and I believe that what TEC is doing is inevitable. They were born of the culture and will die by the culture.

I really hope Fr. Matt Kennedy’s congregation ends up buying those buildings from the Catholic diocese. It’s just too good a story! Is that schadenfreude?

Larry
March 17, 2010

This explains why the Episcopals have been so kind to the Muslims and the Palestinians in particular. They were looking to these Muslims being future buyers of their vacant properties. Never want to make a customer angry.

Jim W
March 17, 2010

“…removing the cross from the bell tower”–an image to which I can only shake my head.

Floridian
March 17, 2010

The Mohammedans most likely replaced the front door of Good Shepherd which had a Cross-shaped window.

The Little Myrmidon
March 17, 2010

Maybe this really is rock bottom. Maybe the only way is up at this point.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
March 17, 2010

Her Syncretic Majesty has no shame. Only the willfilly blind fail to see the fruit she bears.

Don Janousek
March 17, 2010

I’m buckling my seat belt and hooking up my shoulder harness. It is inevitable that within the coming days someone will issue the dreaded “strongly-worded statement.” At about the same time, calls for “listening” will be heard, followed by an optimistic report that “the healing process has begun.” At the end of it all, however, Rowan Williams will exercise his supreme authority and step in with a “call for unity” and solve the matter by setting up a “study commission” and he will ORDER, not ask, ORDER that it issue a report no later than 2035. And now back to our regularly scheduled broadcast.

Michael D
March 17, 2010

I am so hopping mad. This is so infuriating. How full of hate was that bishop, that he would take delight in confiscating the property and then selling it to the enemy? Watch for the image of the cross-removal to appear on triumphalist Islamic sites all over the world. Given what Islam has been doing to Anglicans in Jos Province, this will be particularly offensive to Global South Christians, already deeply offended by the increasing promotion of same-sex marriages and same-sex ordinations.

I know that most Global South Anglicans have already excommunicated ECUSA, but you gotta wonder if there isn’t something more that they can do. ECUSA’s recent actions prior to the Global South Primates meeting suggest that ECUSA wants them to leave the Anglican Communion, so I really don’t want them to do that (don’t let ECUSA set your agenda). Instead they need to find a way to eject ECUSA and ACoC pronto.

Can they call an emergency meeting of Primates and eject ECUSA? Can they impeach Rowan? Can they depose Schori for “abandonment of communion” (hoist her on her own petard). Can they appeal to the Queen? Can thy publish a formal invitation for North American Anglican dioceses and parishes to re-form under ACNA?

Don Janousek
March 17, 2010

Oh, and Jim W: There are many, many pictures on the Internet of members of the League of Militant Atheists removing crosses from Russian churches in the 1920’s and 1930’s. See-no big deal. Happens all the time. You need to get with the inclusiveness program, Jim W. It’s easy. First, throw your Bible and brain out the window, then you……

Miss Sippi
March 17, 2010

Is there any way people who were forced to leave memorial gifts can sue in their own turn?

Paula Loughlin
March 17, 2010

I no longer assume there are depths to which TEO will not sink.

Tregonsee
March 17, 2010

Just returned from a St. Patrick Day mass at the CANA/ACNA which I attend. This was mentioned after the service. Except for a couple of head shakes, there was no response, as we have moved on beyond this nonsense. Speaking for myself, I care, but the wreck of TEC is no longer important.

Don
March 17, 2010

I hope, late at night, when no one is in the building it is torched.

JC Fremont
March 17, 2010

Sad, but inevitable. On the way for many decades.

On another front, it may still be possible to sign the petition in support of the Ecumenical Patriarch Bartholomew at this site: http://faithendowment.org/news/a-call-for-action

Please have a look and sign the petition if it’s still possible to do so.

Africanised Anglican
March 17, 2010

I think one question needs to be asked–and HARD–by all Anglicans.

That question is this:

Is 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 a part of canonical Scripture, and thus binding upon Christians?

“I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler–not even to eat with such a one. For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Do you not judge those who are within the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.”

Did Anglicans somehow think we were exempt from this requirement? Let’s be clear: Paul MANDATES A DOUBLE STANDARD. No escaping it.

Did Anglicanism obey?

No.

Should we have expected a different outcome than this?

No. (Neither did Paul: see 1 Cor. 5:6: “… a little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough.”) (Did he stutter? Is his statement somehow unclear?)

If this had not happened to the Episcopal Church, given that “church’s” flat disobedience of Paul’s command, wouldn’t that have been a conclusive proof that this Scripture was in error?

Every. Single. Step. of the official “response” to the problem of the Episcopal “Church’s” apostasy has been an effort at succeeding in this disobedience of Paul’s command. Some years ago, I joked that the entire project of the Windsor Report could be summed up as follows:

“What partnership have righteousness and lawlessness, or what fellowship has light with darkness? Or what harmony has Christ with Belial, or what has a believer in common with an unbeliever? Please answer in 93 pages or less.”

Jim Zeirke
March 17, 2010

If you think that things cannot get worse, then go here: http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=125870

It seems that the distinguished Hartford Seminary, founded by Congregationalists in the 1700’s has decided to offer a degree program in being an imam in charge of a mosque. KJS must be green with envy this St. Patrick’s Day. “Why didn’t we think of that?” she demands of her serfs.

Athanasius Returns
March 17, 2010

I grieve deeply for those still in TEC who don’t know how very, very, very close the outright evil is.

I do NOT grieve for bishops, particularly the CP and “orthodox” bishops. Accomplices to evil, the lot of them – the only exception, Lawrence.

Alice C. Linsley
March 17, 2010

There’s always Orthodoxy, folks. Here faithless hierarchs are deposed post haste.

FW Ken
March 17, 2010

how very, very, very close the outright evil is.

It was, I think at GC2000 that a minister from Dallas sprinkled blessed salt around tables, including Dallas and Newark. The Newark people (led by Louie Crew) flipped out, stood over in a corner and sang something like “We shall overcome” until the salt was swept up and removed. This is from memory, but here’s an account from that time. It’s not my favorite source, but the news media articles are no longer online.

http://listserv.virtueonline.org/pipermail/virtueonline_listserv.virtueonline.org/2000-August/001565.html

God has given dominion over TEC to Lucifer, that much is clear. Evil truly is close at hand.

Mark Windsor
March 17, 2010

Chris, have you learned nothing yet. You should never put a title like “Rock Bottom” because, quite simply, it probably isn’t.

The young fogey
March 17, 2010

I no longer give a crap, I really don’t.

Nor do I. Which is why I stopped blogging about these people.

Brize
March 17, 2010

TEO is a rotten, stinking, suppurating chancre marked by dishonesty, hypocrisy, venomous hatred and a willingness to do anything to discredit and destroy orthodox classical Anglicanism. And those are its good points.

The young fogey
March 17, 2010

Re: selling the Binghamton church, you can’t make this stuff up.

st. anonymous
March 17, 2010

“There was a crane there removing the cross from the bell-tower”

Whoa! Can it get any more symbolic than that?!

Sasha
March 17, 2010

This is quite simply as utterly and wholly appalling as appalling can possibly ever be!!

For a supposedly-“Christian” organization to be doing ANY business whatsoever with a politico-economic-religious SYSTEM that’s dedicated to ANNIHILATING not only Christianity but ALL religions, political and economic system other than itself is nothing short of outright T R E A S O N against all human decency as well as intelligence!!!

[I think of this with particular horror given how Islâm has mercilessly and heartlessly persecuted both of my ancestral peoples as well as ALL Christians, period!!!!!]

At the same time, I have to agree with Mr. Mark Windsor about rock-bottom hardly being a valid concept in dealing with such an organization or group of people – evil Mankind can ALWAYS sink lower and lower until only Death can stop them. [Here we can remember the prison-guards and their supervisors, rising all the way up to the topmost leaders and party-gurus, under Communism, Fascism and Nazism – there were absolutely NO depths to which such demons and beasts couldn’t sink to!!!]

I can only wonder two things that I need to ask of you all, fellow ladies and gentlemen on this website: a) for whom is Evil close at hand, FW Ken, given that God most certainly Has Given dominion over EOUSA to Satan (is it only that denomination, or is it – as I fear – about to hit ALL of us in the USA and beyond); b) can we really stop caring ‘in toto’ about even those whom the Lord has told us to forsake? [E.g., did Jeremiah truly stop caring about his people as they were being handed over to Nebuchadnezzar and his Babylonians?] Many thanks in advance!!

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Oops, I forgot to also say that I fully second Don about that such property, when handed over to such utterly-DEMONIC forces, is best then destroyed by fire!!! It’s the only right thing to do with what’s so utterly and irrevocably profaned, given that Muslims will NEVER have mercy to sell or do anything positive for everybody other than themselves since they regard them all as ultimately INFIDELS who must be conquered at knifepoint!!!

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Mind you, it would be nice to see if one could first recover things that the Muslims wouldn’t anyway want (altar-furnishings, musical-instruments, any and all other artistic items). After then (especially if they refuse!), then “let the volcano erupt…”

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Finally, yes it is still possible to sign the petition JC Fremont mentioned above – we should all sign it, and the more the merrier!!

Sasha
March 17, 2010

If the Muslims had had ANY little spark of compassion and sympathy (not to say NOBILITY!!), they would have proved it by REFUSING to buy that property – by their doing this and now removing Christian symbols, they’ve all the more proven their evil intentions!!!

Truly a BLACK day to live in infamy as far as all real Christians are concerned – it truly soils St. Patrick’s day as brutally as anything…

PS, sorry to be writing so much and so disjointedly…

barth
March 17, 2010

These last comments are hysterical and mean-spirited. This Islamic outfit looks like a low budget organization: they haven’t even had a dedicated phone number or website. They’re hardly in a position to buy the place; they’re probably getting the space for cost while TEC looks for a real buyer. And these outrageous fantasies about arson would lead to the fantasy TEC collecting their fantasy insurance, and avoid selling in a depressed real estate market. They’d be thrilled if the place burned down and they could get the full value from an insurance company. To the poster: stop making us look like bigots. It’s just you.
Congratulations to the new Islamic center; now please call Nigeria and Darfur and ask them to stop massacreing people.

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen:

I MUST apologise for once again having to post something; however, given my being a classical musician and ex-organist who still deeply wants to regain access to the only truly-worthy instrument in his local area, the heartbreak entailed by the story referred to by this weblink compels me to refer it here: http://catholic-caveman.blogspot.com/2009/11/wed-rather-cozy-up-with-pagans-heretics.html

This “RC Bishop” Edward U. Kmiec of Buffalo recently did the same stinking thing as “TEO Bishop” Gladstone “Skip” Adams – selling a church in Buffalo, N.Y. (Queen of Peace Church on Genesee Street – is that indeed Buffalo itself?), to Muslims in order to spite Traditional Latin-Mass Catholics. The Muslims destroyed Mazur murals and threw a large Kilgen pipe-organ into the garbage!!!! [Even if many Kilgen instruments weren’t the greatest in either workmanship or quality, the fact remains that most pipe-organs can be upgraded in quality and other facets all the same!!…]

Dear Ladies & Gentlemen, may I humbly implore you to add the following Weblink to your computers and servers in order to prevent such NEEDLESS destruction of worthy pipe organs? Many thanks in advance!!!!

http://www.organclearinghouse.com/

This firm locates pipe-organs being sold or gotten rid of, sends people in to dismantle and pack them, and ships them off to decent storage places as well as advertising them for churches or other organizations interested in getting such 2nd-hand instruments – and helps install them in those new places for a fraction of their original costs.

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Barth, the idea of the Muslims stopping their massacres of Christians wherever they have the upper hand couldn’t be more ridiculous, and you know it!!

someone
March 17, 2010

I got a great idea folks: let’s call home all of our sons/daughters from the military. If they want gays in the military let them fill every bunk with one. Then we will have our own at home and the gays and the Muslims can go at each other over there. As for me, I have good friends who are true Muslims and this kind of thing breaks their heart also.

Please march and carry signs in your local state capitol. Wear white or black face masks if you feel threatened and you should. Let your signs say this: “No gays in my military.” Or, you might say “No gays in my Army/Navy/Air Force –pick your favorite. We have lost so much for the last 30 years–we lost because we did not have the guts to get out and demonstrate before the laws were made, or the actions taken. We have a chance to stop this now before it is too late. If we could not protect our churches, maybe we can at least defend our military.

barth
March 17, 2010

Plus I’m glad about Glasspool; TEC has proven they are as bad as I have long thought they were. Worse even, because they’re also liars, rude, and have no class. None of which is as bad as bigotry.

barth
March 17, 2010

Of course a phone call won’t stop Darfur. Nor do I think that Imam Mohamed Afify drives around Binghamton on Sundays looking for Christians to slaughter.

Sasha
March 17, 2010

No, Barth, even bigotry is not as bad as malicious mean-spiritedness when somebody DELIGHTS in doing pure evil as TEO (as well as the Nazis and Commies) enjoys doing!!

Besides, have you forgotten what Russian Orthodoxy did with a chapel of theirs that was desecrated by a “homosexual marriage”? They burned it down and bulldozed the remains (in addition to defrocking the officiating “priest” and excommunicating both him and the participant-“partners!) as “irrevocably profaned”.

I can see your point of view as one not wanting to profit TEO one bit (as well as relative to the illegality thereof); however, eventually insurance companies would refuse to deal with TEO…

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Barth, “Imam” Afify may not be looking YET for Christians to slaughter at this time; however, the odds are excellent if he had his way that he would be doing just that!

Michael D
March 17, 2010

Don: it is inappropriate to advocate violence against other religions.

Sasha
March 17, 2010

Michael D: much as you’re right as a Christian, what do you do when you’re dealing with a religion that not only advocates but COMMANDS violence against not only other religions but other sects within the religion?

As individuals we can choose for ourselves when facing death at the hands of the Muslims – or anybody else – to accept that horrible gift (as we suffer the agonies before death actually takes us); however, can we choose for others for whom we cannot speak? It’s for the sake of these other Christians that we’re compelled to draw the sword against those who would annihilate us all.

Sinner
March 17, 2010

Now, is there any reason left for ANYONE, anyone at all not to question the Christianity of the Episcopal Organization?

There is no reason whatsoever to question the Christianity of TEC.
That’s because it is absolutely not a Christian organisation – and it is not possible to remain within TEC and retain one’s salvation. yes: Lawrence, Harmon and Hey are damned unless they repent

GAFCON will demand that Something Be Done

GAFCON does not talk. GAFCON ACTS.
Your comments about GAFCON are at least ungenrous, at most racist and unchristian.

I know that most Global South Anglicans have already excommunicated ECUSA,

All Global South Anglicans have excommunicated ECUSA The GLOBAL SOUTH are Christian – and it is impossible to be a Christian and remain in communion with TEC.

Is 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 a part of canonical Scripture, and thus binding upon Christians?

Absolutely.

God has given dominion over TEC to Lucifer, that much is clear.

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

Sinner
March 17, 2010

Hartford Seminary, founded by Congregationalists in the 1700’s has decided to offer a degree program in being an imam in charge of a mosque. KJS must be green with envy this St. Patrick’s Day. “Why didn’t we think of that?” she demands of her serfs.

Not at all! Because such a program would not admit gay Imans!
So it can never be offered by an Episcopalian seminary

Sasha
March 17, 2010

I’ll finish off by acknowledging that at heart I do feel queasy at the thought of destroying property and other stuff in the hands of infidels (relative to Christians – we’re aiming to be the faithful); however, I can certainly empathise with those who think it appropriate, at least relative to how the property of this church was taken away from the real Christian congregation by the anti-Christian TEO and then sold to the Muslims, thus allowing TEO to profit from outright theft and evil.

Thus, I hereby feel it better to retreat from outrightly wishing for arson, as it can hit us too. Mea culpa…

FW Ken
March 17, 2010

Nice to see Sinner back in full voice, with the bolded text and all.

However, when I note the spiritual warfare in which TEC leadership has chosen a side, there is no “hallelujah” to shout. While I don’t agree theologically with Anglicanism in general and am appalled at TEC, my spiritual youth was nourished at her altars and by the graces received through her ministers.

I botched my first comment on this thread, which was intended to say that almost 24 years out, and appalled at the inevitable course TEC has taken, I still care. I can’t really get angry, but feel a grave sadness. Something good in the world has died and we are all the less for it (I think a quote from someone, but I’m not sure).

Christopher Johnson
March 17, 2010

Actually, it’s the whole Anglican song-and-dance, all the usual reactions and open letters and studies and Important StatementsTM and whatnot, that I don’t care about anymore. Lord knows I’ve been through it often enough. I do care, and care deeply, that an organization as evil as TEO passes itself off as Christian and that’s what angers me about all this and why I guess I’ll never stop writing about them.

[…] Episcopal Church Evicts Congregation, Sells Building to Muslims […]

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

CJ: “Anything less than total separation from TEO and its allies by conservative Anglicans is unacceptable.

If “official” conservative Anglicans aren’t willing to demand that and cut ties with Canterbury if they don’t get it, then “official” conservative Anglicanism is completely worthless.”

Well, let’s see. There’s the Communion Partner clergy, the more prominent ones that come to mind are: +John Howe, +MacPherson, Russell Levenson+, +Marc Lawrence, et al….

There’s prominent bloggers: Sarah Hey, Kendall Harmon+, Jackie Bruschi, Greg Griffith+, Jill Woodliff, Rob Eaton+, Deacon Phil Snyder, et al.

There’s the Anglican Communion Institutionalists: Christopher Seitz, Ephraim Radner, Philip Turner, et al.

Whether Communion Partner or 3rd Wayers, the net result at the end of the day is that they’re all Institutionalist-Enablers of TEc’s soul-destroying heresy and apostasy. Yoked, complicit, and morally culpable. Despite stringent denials to the contrary.

The TEc beast needs the 3 B’s: Buildings, Bucks, Bodies. Staying in TEc helps out with the number of “Bodies”. Whatever these Institutionalists-Enablers give in Tithes and Offerings represents “Bucks.” And even designating that these “Bucks” go to the local parish helps to pay off the mortgage and/or upkeep of “Buildings” that TEc will contend for since TEc regards itself as a hierarchical church, and not as one with a congregational polity.

So DioSC and +Lawrence can differentiate all they want, Third Way Sarah Hey can snarky bleat all she wants, and ACI can diarrhea blast out their position papers all they want in support of the Communion Partner clergy, but the bottom-line is that Christopher Johnson is correct:

“Anything less than total separation from TEO and its allies by conservative Anglicans is unacceptable.

If “official” conservative Anglicans aren’t willing to demand that and cut ties with Canterbury if they don’t get it, then “official” conservative Anglicanism is completely worthless.”

Unacceptable and Worthless!!!

Dan
March 18, 2010

O.K., for those of you who feel absolutely rotten, and with St. Patrick’s day just passed, I think the following YouTube video is appropriate – The Worst Day Since Yesterday by Flogging Molly – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDSud7vAH_0

And here is a video of the choir rehearsing for the upcoming HOB meeting – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCssYzVl6oQ

Enjoy.

Sinner
March 18, 2010

Good to see that Jensen as spokesman for GAFCON has demanded a total split from ECUSA or otherwise GAFCON will split from anyone who remains in communion with ECUSA (i.e Canterbury et al)

the shouting should all be over by the end of the next GAFCON/GS meeting.

Matt Kennedy
March 18, 2010

nope Barth,

They bought it. For about 1/3rd of the price at which it was marketed and what we were willing to pay

AnglicanXn
March 18, 2010

It could get worse – some parish might decide to place a statue of Vishnu or Shiva on the altar. It won’t happen soon – but it is not out of the question.

For all the talk of “Scripture, Tradition, and Reason,” I see less and less of each – especially reason.

Floridian
March 18, 2010

‘Bishop’ Skip Adams should have considered turning the old Good Shepherd building into an AIDS, STD and mental health treatment and suicide prevention center. Tolerance and affirmation are not effective defenses against the ravages and consequences of sin, in fact, it only increases them and is a sin in itself (Romans 1:32). In cities where homosex is fully accepted and affirmed, the incidence of negative and tragic outcomes only increase as police and CDC statistics have shown.
(http://www.narth.com/docs/nodefense.html)

William Tighe
March 18, 2010

“It could get worse – some parish might decide to place a statue of Vishnu or Shiva on the altar. It won’t happen soon – but it is not out of the question.”

Didn’t this happen already, 25 years ago or more, at the “anti-cathedral” of St. John the Divine in New York City, when the cathedral allowed itself to be used by a Japanese Buddhist group, and the groups cult objects were erected upon the high altar?

From Henry and his Base-Born Bess to that, and now to this, a facilis descensus Averni.

Katherine
March 18, 2010

Matt Kennedy, you offered to buy it at a price considerably higher than its sale price to the Muslim group? I suppose I shouldn’t be appalled any more at what this bishop is capable of, but that is a sick commentary on his intentions. This is the “anybody but Anglicans” sale philosophy pushed by 815. This is hatred and vindictiveness which should be foreign to any organization claiming to be Christian.

As to this particular Muslim group, it’s hard to blame them. They got a good deal on meeting space. I wonder if there were any church belongings inside which Good Shepherd has an interest in which the Muslims do not. Perhaps they would be more generous than the Episcopal bishop.

Fuinseoig
March 18, 2010

I am confused, since I thought part of the excuse about Good Shepherd was that there was already an Episcopalian congregation in place to take over once the dissident remnant had been booted out.

So it turns out the Bishop was being, in the words of Alan Clark, “economical with the actualité”? How surprised I am!

I would make jokes along the lines that at least with a Moslem group on the premises, at least there is guaranteed monotheism, but the situation is really too sad.

Marie Blocher
March 18, 2010

I can’t advocate a late night torching of the building. (Some people would blame the Anglicans, whether they had proof or not.) But I would not be saddened if lightning struck it and the fire department was unable to control the flames until it was a pile of ash.

Fuinseoig
March 18, 2010

Out of no more lofty motive than curiosity, I went looking on the Diocese of Central New York website to see if there was any news about this. I couldn’t find any, but this handy page of links I did find:

“Standing Committee

Standing Committee Property Guidelines April 2009
Application to Place Church Owned Real Property on the Market
Application to Grant Easement of Church Owned Real Property
Application to Mortgage Church Owned Real Property
Application to Sell Church Owned Real Property
Application to Lease Church Owned Real Property”

Are we seeing a theme here? If you want to sell, mortgage, or lease out your property, we’ll help all we can – but nothing about buying property to cope with the massive influx of new members that the Prophetic Work of the Spirit is attracting. Hmmmm – further evidence that All Is Well?

Katherine
March 18, 2010

Fuinseoig, I used to think, before I went overseas for a time, that I had a lot more in common with the Muslim monotheists than I did with Hindu polytheists. In practical effect it turned out to be the reverse. Oddly, the educated Hindus were more open to modern business methods and more interested in modern thinking and modern life. Among the educated Muslims there was still a frozen place in their minds, and many have a very hard time with changing what they’ve always done, even in theoretically secular areas. In both cases, the uneducated masses are very backward, as might be expected.

Winston
March 18, 2010

St. John Chrysostom: “The road to Hell is paved with the skulls of bishops.”

Brian
March 18, 2010

I’m sure the diocese will spin this as some form of positive inter-faith relations.

Don
March 18, 2010

Fact of the matter is we should not allow any type of Islam facility to be owned or built in the US. Burn them all I say.

Katherine
March 18, 2010

Don, rather, convert them all, or try to.

The young fogey
March 18, 2010

Brian: I think you’re right.

Don
March 18, 2010

The only good muslim is an ex-muslim.

Matt Kennedy
March 18, 2010

We left with around 90 people, leaving only three parishioners behind. There was never going to be another congregation worshiping at our former building and this was known from the very beginning of our negotiations.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

What’s the similarity between these two statements:

(A) “I’M CALLED TO STAY in TEc.”

(B) “I’m CALLED TO BE GAY clergy in TEc.”

———-

Have you figured it out?

Anyways, if someone strongly claims that they’re called by God to do something, then end of discussion.

They’re called. End of story. Finito.

Stay in TEc. Give the time, money, help with number stats, help with the building upkeep, and who knows, you just may preserve what the local Muslims need for a cheap price.

But it’s okay. You’re called to stay. So stay.

Dr. Mabuse
March 18, 2010

Katherine, I agree – ironically, the former parishioners might have a better chance retrieving any remaining memorabilia of Good Shepherd from the new Muslim owners than from their former supposed “bishop”. A polite request, or an offer to buy or replace the objects in question (if anything was left behind) wouldn’t be out of line. The Muslims have no personal animosity against the former owners – they just bought a building that was up for sale.

And I disagree with blaming them for this ugly incident. It was the so-called “Christian” diocese that stripped their mother naked and offered her for sale in a slave market. Why should we expect infidels to show more reverence for Christianity than those who claim to believe in it?

Michael D
March 18, 2010

I completely condemn any and all of the above comments that recommend or endorse violence, arson, etc. Pull yourselves together, folks. We are all angry, but we’re not idiots, and we’re not going to demean ourselves to the bloody ground-crawling knee-jerk violence that has marked so many branches of the Islamic world in the past century. You sound like trolls trying to plant comments that can be quoted elsewhere by people wanting to demonstrate the illegitimacy of conservative Christians.

Floridian
March 18, 2010

“A group of Muslim raiders with machetes attacked another Christian village in Nigeria on Wednesday morning. The attackers killed twelve villagers—seven women, four children, and one man—and cut their tongues out.

Attackers killed 12 people Wednesday morning in a small Christian village in central Nigeria, officials said”

Katherine
March 18, 2010

Dr Mabuse, if some of the memorial items were religious in their significance, the Muslims will have no use for them at all, and if these items are still in the building, a polite request might bring a positive response. It’s worth a try.

I’m thinking, for instance, of the baptismal font my parish recently acquired from a church which was being closed and put up for sale. The font is a thing of beauty, and a man who either built it or knew who did was touching it and crying as it was removed. We’re going to write to him and send a photo of it installed and in use, with a note of thanks to the faith of those who provided it.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

CJ: “Anything less than total separation from TEO and its allies by conservative Anglicans is unacceptable.”

Matt Kennedy+: “The Episcopal Church is irreformable.

You can do a lot more damage to already crumbling structures from the inside than you can from the outside. Certainly stop giving would be a step…but we have in the past written extensively about how people, from the inside, can undermine and discredit the current leadership of TEC and their allies in among clergy. I think a better plan than leaving, is staying in and helping her fall.

I don’t know how staying in an admittedly irreformably apostate church with the intent of undermining it helps to fulfill Jesus’ Great Commission, so go figure.

midwestnorwegian
March 18, 2010

If your church property is about to be absorbed by Satan, it would be better to deconsecrate it and burn it to the ground.

Dr. Mabuse
March 18, 2010

According to Matt’s recounting of the events, they did deconsecrate the altar and blew out the sanctuary candle as their last acts. They did all they could. After that, the building was just an empty shell.

William Tighe
March 18, 2010

What’s the similarity between these two statements:

(A) “I’M CALLED TO STAY in TEc.”

(B) “I’m CALLED TO BE GAY clergy in TEc.”

Or

(C) “I’M CALLED TO BE AN ORTHODOX WITNESS IN AN ARIAN CHURCH.”

St. Athanasius the Great would have laughed at such a conceit, and then called on such a “fool” to “fly,” just as a century later Pope Gelasius wrote “In consortio damnatorum damnatus est Acacius,” that is, by remaining in the communion of condemned heretics, Acacius himself (be he never so orthodox) incurred the same condemnation as his fellows.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

“I’M CALLED TO BE AN ORTHODOX WITNESS IN AN ARIAN CHURCH.”

Well to nuance that a little bit, according to Matt Kennedy+, such folks are called to be an “orthodox” witness who intends and acts willfully to *undermine* this Arian/Apostate Church from within.

Llano Estacado
March 18, 2010

So the headline should be, “DIOCESE OF CENTRAL NEW YORK SELLS BUILDING TO PEOPLE WHO HATE GAYS” or something of the sort…

kb9gzg
March 18, 2010

We talk ad infinitum while the “progressives” act. Are we in that much denial?

Christopher Hathaway
March 18, 2010

If I might point out a serious possitive and serendipitous (or providential) aspect to this tragic and despicable affair, these muslims who bought the building now have a personal connection through it with Christians who are not bowing down to the corrupt morality of our day which the muslims themselves reject. And they will seen that these Christians were willing to pay the price for their faith. This is prime witnessing opportunity, the kind that many muslims never see. We are called to leave all for the sake of Christ, and to count our losses as gains, our persecutions as blessings. It’s time we fat Anglicans, fat western Anglicans learned this and lived it.

It is indeed an ill wind that blows no good, and God controls the winds.

Katherine
March 18, 2010

Good point, Llano Estacado! I wonder if the diocese thought of that? Ethics don’t seem to be their strong point, though.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

Matt Kennedy+: “They bought it. For about 1/3rd of the price at which it was marketed and what we were willing to pay.”

And whoever said TEc was all about the money? They sold the property for one-third of what they could have got. See? TEc is kind and magnanimous. Why would anyone want to stay in TEc and undermine such liberal generosity?

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

Matt Kennedy+: “They bought it. For about 1/3rd of the price at which it was marketed and what we were willing to pay.”

And that’s the kind of sweet, tolerant, generous, liberal Christian witness that the Muslims will see and appreciate.

(As they successfully stifle their snickers.)

Don
March 18, 2010

Moderate Muslims exist. Moderate Isalm does not.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

“According to Matt’s recounting of the events, they did deconsecrate the altar and blew out the sanctuary candle as their last acts.”

And in the spirit of liberal TEc generosity, maybe they could ask the new Muslim owners if they’d like to have an Episco-Muslim pr***tess reconsecrate the property. What was her name? Was it Redding? Is she a pr***tess in good standing in TEc?

Anyways, have her come and bless the property as it transitions from TEc to Islam.

Oooops. Islam doesn’t allow women clergy? Oh well, maybe not.

Katherine
March 18, 2010

Don’t know that Islam has “clergy” in the sense that we do, TU&D, nor that they bless buildings. They’ll just put in a mihrab and minbar and start using it. They’ll hire an imam, but there’s no central process for training and certifying such. Not in content, but in form, vaguely analogous to the independent evangelicals. They’ve got the book (Koran, in their case) and any man can lead prayers.

Allen Lewis
March 18, 2010

So now with that out of the way, we can contemplate the wonderfulness of the Presiding Squid going after the Diocesan of one of the few Episcopal Dioceses which managed to grow more than the percentage of population increase. Of course, you all know I am speaking of the Diocese of South Carolina.

If Dr. Jefferts Schori (I will not call her a bishop!) is true to form, she will depose +Lawrence for abandonment of communion, replace the Standing Committee with hand-picked members of the SC Episcopal Forum. She will then succeed in causing the implosion of the Episcopal faith in the Diocese of SC.

I don’t know that there is any legal way to stop her. I suspect the SC Supreme Court will deny the Episcopal Church any diocesan property, Dennis Canon, or no Dennis Canon.

It is about to get very interesting in SC!

Christopher –
There are no maledictions strong enough for Gladstone “Skip” and Company. I expect there is a Circle in Hell reserved for them.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

Allen Lewis: “If Dr. Jefferts Schori (I will not call her a bishop!) is true to form, she will depose +Lawrence for abandonment of communion”

I don’t understand why a revisionist-apostate would depose an Institutionalist-Enabler who’s helping to keep the numbers up which then helps to pay for the TEc properties, but it is what it is.

Just like everyone enjoyed watching the slow-motion votes and consents for bishopess-elect Glasspool, everyone can enjoy watching the slow-motion deposition of +Lawrence.

Everyone go get a crying towel. Boo-hoo. Boo-hoo. Matt Kennedy and his parish got run out of TEc. Boo-hoo. Boo-hoo. +Lawrence might get deposed by the PBess. Boo-hoo. Boo-hoo. They all just want to stay in TEc. But TEc is so mean to them. Boo-hoo. Boo-hoo.

Let’s all cry for the Institutionalist-Enablers of TEc’s soul-destroying heresy and apostasy. They’re trying to undermine TEc. But then TEc undermines them even worse. Boo-hoo. Boo-hoo.

barth
March 18, 2010

Matt Kennedy: sorry to hear that I’m wrong and they bought it. I think it’s nice though that the rotten TEc has only 1/3 of the money they could have had to pursue their mission to destroy Christianity.

Sasha: re the mea culpa: Whew! Pleased to stand with you rather than opposed to you.

Don: Burning mosques is opposed to US traditions of religious freedom. Even if what you say is true, it’s a mistake to pick a fight with Muslims if you’re not ready to fight, because Muslims will fight, and western Christians are pussies.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 18, 2010

Barth: “western Christians are pussies.”

Not all western Christians are like the Anglican Cowardice Institute.

Midwestern Episcopalian
March 18, 2010

The TEC has gone so far off the reservation that I don’t care anymore either. I kept hoping that one of the conservative bishops would be able to stand up against this onslaught….The TEC and Anglican Church have left us, the Roman Catholic Church has allowed new age paganism to come in and hijack it, the evangelical churches are being overrun with emergent church teachings…Christianity as a whole is allowing gnosticism to become the norm while we who hold orthodox views are marginalized. Where does a Christian person who believes in the orthodox view of the faith go to worship??? I have just about decided to stay home and not bother going to worship services anymore.

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot
March 18, 2010

Look at the bright side. At least the cash that the Mohammadens has to fork over won’t be getting into the hands of terrorists! Oh…well…uhhhh…

William Tighe
March 18, 2010

“The Roman Catholic Church has allowed new age paganism to come in and hijack it.”

Tell us more, o oracle.

FW Ken
March 18, 2010

The TEC and Anglican Church have left us

TEC, yes. and Canada and England, but the Global South is pretty solid.

the Roman Catholic Church has allowed new age paganism to come in and hijack it

Perhaps you can provide us a quote from The Catechism of the Catholic Church or even a papal encyclical that will support that contention?

the evangelical churches are being overrun with emergent church teachings

Evidence? In the first place, evangelicals are and always have been a diverse lot. You have Bible Church types – Wheaton, Dallas Theological Seminary, and so on, who are basically rationalist “word” evangelicals. You have pentecostals, or “spirit” evangelicals. You have the prosperity gospellers, a subset of the pentecostals, old-line anabaptists (Mennonites), and then, of course, the Southern Baptists. Which of these are infected with Emergent Church teachings?Maybe some Mennonites and a few Southern Baptists.

Where does a Christian person who believes in the orthodox view of the faith go to worship?

Well, as a Catholic, I will gather with the Catholic people and share the Body and Blood of Christ. Eastern Orthodox people will gather in their communities. Evangelicals will gather in theirs. None of these communities will be perfect. I can tell you that some Catholic parishes have been hi-jacked by new age paganism. But grownups don’t look for a perfect church, which is easily mistaken for yet another narcissistic reflection of my own petulant desires.

Staying home – separating yourself from the Body of Christ – is precisely what the enemy of your soul is aiming for. Trust Jesus Christ, the Risen Lord! Hell’s gates cannot stand against Him. He promised to remain with His Church. He is not a liar!

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 19, 2010

Wannabe Anglican is steamed about this whole mess too:

“So where do I stand on The Episcopal Church and on the Anglican Communion now?

Let me spell it for you.

A “church” that sues the faithful, praises murdering the unborn, aids the spread of Islam, and, while they are at it, makes “bishops” out of shameless perverts can go to Hell.

And I not only do I have no interest in going with them, I do not want to be in communion with any bishop who tolerates such evil in the church. Yes, that means I have no interest in communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury as long as he is a dithering enabler of The Evil “Church”.”

Sinner
March 19, 2010

Burning mosques is opposed to US traditions of religious freedom.

Oh rubbish. The US has never tolerated Muslims!
Hell the first war the US fought was against Muslims – we can only hope that the last war that the US loses is not also against Muslims!

Even if what you say is true, it’s a mistake to pick a fight with Muslims if you’re not ready to fight, because Muslims will fight, and western Christians are pussies.

Right. Which is why Akinola has the right attitude: Short and the rest of the Western Liberals are as guilty for the hundreds of thousands of Christians killed in the world every year as if they put the gun to each one of their heads and pulled the trigger!

Anyone who is in communion with TEC is similarly guilty of murder.

This is why GAFCON and FCA will not even remain in the same room as a liberal “Priest” or “Bishop” and refuse all “Dialog” – because to dialog in any way with them is to have the blood of many innocent Christians on your own head and you absolutely will be damned for it

Sinner
March 19, 2010

And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

12His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

13And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

15And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

16And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God;

18That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great.

19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.

20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

21And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

ECUSA and all who remain with her are damned eternally!

Lord Christ, come and begin your rule over all the earth!

Lord Christ, come and throw the evildoers into the lake of fire!

Hallelujah! Hallelujah! Hallelujah!

Sinner
March 19, 2010

For now is the axe put unto the root of the trees, so that every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God: he shall pour down rain upon the sinners, snares, fire and brimstone, storm and tempest; this shall be their portion to drink. For lo, the Lord is come out of his place to visit the wickedness of such as dwell upon the earth. But who may abide the day of his coming? Who shall be able to endure when he appeareth? His fan is in his hand, and he will purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the barn; but he will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Then shall appear the wrath of God in the day of vengeance, which obstinate sinners, through the stubbornness of their heart, have heaped unto them, selves; which despised the goodness, patience, and long, sufferance of God, when he calleth them continually to repentance. Then shall they call upon me, (saith the Lord,) but I will not hear; they shall seek me early, but they shall not find me; and that, because they hated knowledge, and received not the fear of the Lord, but abhorred my counsel, and despised my correction. Then shall it be too late to knock when the door shall be shut; and too late to cry for mercy when it is the time of justice. O terrible voice of most just judgement, which shall be pronounced upon them, when it shall be said unto them, Go, ye cursed, into the fire everlasting, which is prepared for the devil and his angels.

FW Ken
March 19, 2010

Ok, maybe it’s not so good to have Sinner back in full voice…

Don
March 19, 2010

Not sure if anyone watched HBO Thursday night. The documentary “Afghan Star” was on. It proved my earlier point. There are moderate Muslims. There is no moderate Islam.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 19, 2010

MidwestNorwegian from the “Boilerplate” thread: “Christians remaining within TEC need an intervention if you ask me.”

And says the same thing on a SFIF thread: “Not encouraging folks still in TEC to leave, but can’t help but wonder if Christians remaining in TEC need an intervention.”

Sarah Hey responds: “Well, midwest, I’ve thought the same thing about those going to . . . other places.

But thanks for “wondering.” To do an intervention, though, you’ve got to have people whom one respects and listens to doing it. ; > )”

Will Sarah Hey respect and listen to Christopher Johnson. Because CJ says:

“Anything less than total separation from TEO and its allies by conservative Anglicans is unacceptable.

If “official” conservative Anglicans aren’t willing to demand that and cut ties with Canterbury if they don’t get it, then “official” conservative Anglicanism is completely worthless.”

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 19, 2010

Boilerplate

Here’s a boilerplate from T19 and SFIF’s Sarah Hey:

“[rugbyplayingpriest – your posts at 1. above and this one are in breach of T19’s comment policy in suggesting, encouraging or instructing readers to leave one church or join another. You were warned yesterday about this and with regret, if you continue to breach our rules, it will affect your commenting privileges here. We value your participation as we do with all our commenters and hope you will take note and that we do not have to get involved again – thanks – Elf]”

So what exactly did RugbyPlayingPriest write that would cause this boilerplate eruption? Here:

1. Poignant stuff and it begs the bigger question of how we little ones stand up for goodness in the dance of evil? Is it by faithfully hanging in or by bravely walking out? After many years of discernment I feel it is time for Anglo Catholics to be faithful by walking…what else is the gracious offer of an ordinariate but Gods hand opening one door where another is being slammed in our faces? But God will doubtless also need those who will stay behind tending the ravage sheep who could not or would not leave for safer pasture.

23. as to staying and fleeing…..staying in what and fleeing from what?

I will never flee from Christ or my Catholic faith…..but should a politicaly expedient institution abandon the faith then why would that deserve undying loyalty?

Would not the more faithful thing be to seek a pasture for the sheep away from the wolves? For if Anglicanism is intent on allying itself with the world then we no longer have a place within it. It becomes a part of the orcs foul city and we must move to the places where faithfulness is preserved and upheld that we might fight for the kingdom alongside fellow believers

That is a sad situation to be in. It requires nerve, sacrifice, change and courage. But I earnestly believe that we are at the point whereby Gandalf would stare at us and shout

‘flee you fools!’

———

So here is Sarah Hey’s boilerplate snarky response to RugbyPlayingPriest:

RE: “Would not the more faithful thing be to seek a pasture for the sheep away from the wolves?”

No.

RE: “we must move to the places where faithfulness is preserved and upheld that we might fight for the kingdom alongside fellow believers . . . “

Okay — when will you be leaving?

RE: “But I earnestly believe that we are at the point whereby Gandalf would stare at us and shout . . . “

I don’t.

But if you do, have you left yet? Perhaps you could start a blog talking about how you are thinking of leaving and why others should be as well. I’m sure all of those thinking of leaving could go and add comments to it and read it with great interest. It would certainly be an improvement over your using this blog to write the same stuff on every single thread.

——–

What do you think of Sarah Hey’s answer to RugbyPlayingPriest’s sincere question of:

“Would not the more faithful thing be to seek a pasture for the sheep away from the wolves?”

Sarah Hey: “No.

No??? What? Sarah Hey says “No,” i.e., the more faithful thing is to NOT get the sheep away from the wolves?

Can you believe what an utter dumba$$ she is? The best thing about this whole exchange is that she has revealed the huge crack in her backside mythical 3rd Way approach.

bob
March 19, 2010

This is Ann Redding having her cake and eating it. All thanks to ECUSA.
I think back to a copy of “Cathedral Age”, the begging magazine that comes out of the “National” cathedral, I read in the mid 70’s. In a great ecumenical event there one of the features that was breathlessly described was an Islamic minister singing *their* call to prayer from the pulpit, the place where the Gospel is read. I was in high school then, but knew enough to understand that was *wrong*. That’s not what you do in a church. Of course nothing happened in response. Ever since then, and certainly now, Muslims must be thinking “This is going to be a lot easier than we thought”. And they are right. As long as they have allies like ECUSA they will have a great inroad to the US and its slumbering christians.

William Tighe
March 19, 2010

“The Church of Sarah” will endure no rivals.

Truth Unites... and Divides
March 19, 2010

“The Church of Sarah” will endure no rivals.

“The Church of Sarah Hey” says there’s a Third Way to stay in TEc.

But rector Steve Wood of DioSC underneath +Marc Lawrence says There is No Third Way.

Excerpt:

I have argued that the supposed third way – in but not in/out but not out – is a mythological and vain hope that fails the first test of logic. In a different context: one is either in a marriage or one is not in a marriage. If a couple, due to marital infidelity, decides to separate, either by moving down the hall to a different room within the house, or by departing the house, they are STILL married. To remain within TEC, in spite of its biblical/theological infidelities, is to remain within TEC regardless of the linguistic gymnastics employed to persuade/delude oneself otherwise. Mary Glasspool as a bishop of the church is a bishop for the church, including South Carolina. It is a logical and ontological impossibility to be in but not in.

Now, my wondering eyes turn to the Convention of the Diocese of South Carolina and I wonder with the psalmist, “how long, O Lord?” How long, and by what rationale, can we remain covenanted with an institution that has severed itself from its head (Colossians 2.18-20) and embraced another lover?”

——-

Open comment to Rector Steve Wood:

Don’t listen to Bishop Marc Lawrence and Sarah Hey. The more faithful thing for you as an undershepherd is to seek a safe pasture for your sheep away from the wolves of TEc (unlike what Sarah Hey says).

If they want to stay behind and embrace another lover, that’s their willful choice. As you said, there is *no* third way. No “differentiating” strategy.

Leave and don’t look back like Lot’s wife did.

Katherine
March 19, 2010

Revelation is a very difficult text, Sinner. Take care.

Ed the Roman
March 19, 2010

“Revelation is a very difficult text, Sinner. Take care.”

.oO(NOW they tell me)
Sinner

Smurf Breath
March 19, 2010

So Sinner, I suppose you prefer Michael Swift’s manifesto. Is that your sacred text now? As long as you are trapped in that viewpoint, unless you understand the vileness of sin, your own as well as others, Revelation will always appear as nothing more than mere wrath to you.

Sinner
March 19, 2010

Revelation is not mere wrath.

It is the justified, avenging, ultimate, final, total expression, “the terrible voice of the most just judgement” of the holiness and justice of the only true God

Dale Matson
March 20, 2010

TU&D,
Despite your ongoing battle with Sarah Hey, I believe She is a thorn in the side of KJS more than all of us combined. I also believe her putting facts on the ground has led to many folks making their own decisions about leaving TEC even though she does not advocate for this. The Stand Firm website means just what it says in the title and I have no problem abiding by their comment policy while I am a guest in their house. As super-administrators they have the sovereignty to do as they please. Based on the scathing and vile comments they get from revisionists, I’d say they are doing their job too.

Sinner
March 20, 2010

I believe She is a thorn in the side of KJS more than all of us combined.

Oh for Dagon’s sake – you really be believe that KJS cares or thinks about any of you at all? That she could “give a damn?”

KJS only cares about the half-man half-fish God that she worships by splattering the blood of aborted children upon the altar, and the sex with multiple gays and lesbians that she “sanctifies”.

Dagon. Fighting God since 5000 BC.

Sinner
March 20, 2010

As for Sarah Hey – can she be absolutely sure that not one child has been aborted, or seduced into a gay and lesbian lifestyle – of someone who stayed in ECUSA on her advice? Not one?

Because if only one parent stayed in ECUSA on Heys advice, and their child has been aborted, or become gay, then it is better that she had never been born

Damnation of the many. Salvation of a few. Hey has chosen the many.

Gamewell45
March 20, 2010

Wow, sure is a lot of angry people in here!

Christopher Johnson
March 20, 2010

Darn right there are. And we have every right to be.

Dale Matson
March 20, 2010

Gamewell45,
“Wow, sure is a lot of angry people in here!”
Some comments (for example from “Sinner”)are intentionally skewed and bolded for effect. Sinner is attempting to shame most of the conservatives who post here with exaggerated versions of their opinions.

Jay Random
March 21, 2010

Sinner is attempting to shame most of the conservatives who post here with exaggerated versions of their opinions.

With the same effect as when a rabid PETA supporter goes around telling meat-eaters that they are committing cannibalism. He gets the feeling of moral and intellectual superiority from having shown those evil troglodytes what’s what — and everybody else gets to see beyond the shadow of a doubt that he is non compos mentis, full goose bozo.

I am not personally qualified to assess Sinner’s mental condition, and if I were so qualified, I would not make such an assessment based on a series of blog comments. But I will say that Sinner’s comments show no sign of sanity; if you wanted to prove that he or she was sane, you would have to look for other evidence.

David Justin Lynch
April 13, 2010

While I agree that the legal position of the Diocese is absolutely correct – they do own the building – and while I do disagree with the dissenting congregation’s theology – I am clearly in the progressive camp –
I don’t agree with what they did after they won the case. To sell the building at market price to the dissenting congregation would have been win-win for everyone. To sell it at cut rate to those who would desecrate a House of God is inexcusable.

[…] think that’s bad? ROCK BOTTOM | Midwest Conservative Journal In a nutshell, the congregation broke from the national church and so the diocese evicted them. […]

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