gpppOVERPAID, OVERSEXED, OVER HERE
If media reports are correct, the Americans have begun to assert themselves at the Lambeth Conference:
At the Lambeth conference, few are bemoaning the absence of traditionalist Africans - except journalists scuttling around to make bricks out of hay - and the Americans are left calling the shots and, boy, are they doing it with gusto.
Not content with bringing a battalion of pro-gay lobbyists to the sprawling University of Kent campus, the efficient US episcopal machine is also churning out daily - informal - briefings on what the mood is like and what is being said by whom. Think of it as a bishop a day keeps the schism away.
They are also blogging as if their lives depended on it. It’s great for gossip-starved media, but bad news for organisers who were praying for a non-eventful event. There are some African churchmen who have defied their boycott, but there is a case for strength in numbers. The absentees have inadequate representation at the conference, but they could have made their voices heard had they bitten the bullet and come to Canterbury.
Thus the Guardian. The Telegraph reports that the Yanks are going to demand of the Archbishop of Canterbury that he stop the Single Worst Thing That Ever Happened in the History of the Entire Christian Church:
The Archbishop of Canterbury will be told this week to stop conservative clergy leaving their national churches and becoming bishops in other countries.
Dr Rowan Williams is to be lobbied by liberals who are dominating the ten-yearly Lambeth Conference, because more than 200 traditionalist bishops have boycotted the gathering as a result of divisions on gay clergy and women bishops.
He will be told that the process of conservative American clergy opting out of their national body and becoming bishops in African and South American churches goes against tradition and must be stopped.
Dr Williams will also be urged to prevent orthodox Anglicans, who believe the Bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong, from setting up a new province in North America to rival the Episcopal Church of the USA, which triggered the current crisis by electing the first openly gay bishop in the worldwide Communion.The Most Rev Katharine Jefferts Schori, the Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, has vowed to ask Dr Williams "to encourage other parts of the Communion to cease their incursions" while they are together at Lambeth.
She said: "It’s totally opposed to a traditional Christian understanding of how bishops relate to each other. That’s the biggest difficulty. They’re setting up as something else in the same geographical territory."
Although it's probably not going to happen, it would be delighful if Dr. Williams' responded to Mrs. Schori along the lines of, "Well, what the Bishop of New Hampshire enjoys doing in bed and who he enjoys doing it with are 'totally opposed to a traditional Christian understanding' of sin. So as long as we're telling each other what we want done, tell Gene Robinson to step down and I'll see what I can do. Now get back to your anchovy pizza group. The Duck-Duck-Goose game is starting."
But I don't think anything's going to come of this. For one thing, the Conference is not structured to actually confront issues or solve anything. And what can Dr. Williams do about it anyway? Not invite such bishops to the Lambeth Conference? The current one just started and the next one's ten years away. And the provinces who would be most likely to consecrate American bishops are the basis of GAFCON, are boycotting the current Conference and stopped caring what the Americans think four or five years ago.
Might, as some have suggested, the Americans assert themselves to the extent of trying to get Gene Robinson admitted? They probably already have. Might Dr. Williams give in? Only if he has a death wish for the Communion. If that happens, he will be quite properly be seen as nothing more than Kate Schori's sock puppet and the notion of even nominal allegiance to the Archbishop of Canterbury among conservatives should die right then and there.
Submitted by KC
at 7/18/2008 2:58:14 PM| Chris: Help me out here...according to TEC, when is it that tradition counts , and when does it not count...I am confoozed....seems like it only counts with territory/property and nothing else? |
Submitted by Tom_(St. Louis)_
at 7/18/2008 3:22:20 PM| Oh so simple KC! Tradition counts precisely when the Presiding Bishopette says it does and it does not count when she says it doesn't. Nothing more and nothing less. |
Submitted by Bishop of Bray
at 7/18/2008 3:24:57 PM| My dear Brosis KC, Tradition counts when the bishops reach consensus as to its applicability. And not just any bishops. While all laypersons should of course obey their bishop, only enlightened bishops can properly state when and where tradition applies and when there is a new movement of the Spirit. As a general rule, the vast majority of English, Welsh, Irish, Scottish, American, South African, Canadian and New Zealand bishops are enlightened. So any pronouncement by any of us should be taken as policy. Fortunately the indaba process is working well and we should have yet more enlightened bishops in the near future. Bishop C_____, in my indaba group, has proposed a technique he calls "love bombing" that sounds very promising. |
Submitted by Paula Loughlin
at 7/18/2008 3:50:05 PM| Ok people time to muster up for the new TEC drinking game. Another you say, but how can we stay even the teeniest bit sober with the addition of yet another TEC drinking game. Look I don't care y'all are Piskies not Baptists so quit your namby pamby cry baby mammy whinefest. And get out those shot glasses. Ready, here goes Every time KJS uses the words Tradition and Christian in the same sentence you take a slug. Oh easy you say. Wait you must do this without any snickering, eye rolling, guffaws, knee slaps or spewing said drink. Christopher take your hand away from your face. Just as I thought, that is a snicker, yes it is. No I would not call it a hiccough. Fess up. You are disqualified. |
Submitted by Sinner
at 7/18/2008 4:34:29 PM| Good News from the Hammer of God
There is a new GAFCON statement - which directly refutes the ABC's complaints. I think the best bit is: On legitimacy... GAFCON, where the governing structures of many provinces were present, affirmed such a Council of the GAFCON movement as its body to authenticate and recognise confessing Anglican jurisdictions, clergy and congregations and to encourage all Anglicans to promote the gospel and defend the faith. In other words: Tom Wright and Rowan WIlliams and all the rest: either apply to GAFCON to be validated or be declared a mission field NOW If nothing else sets the cat among the pidgeons - hopefully that will. |
Submitted by Ken
at 7/18/2008 5:14:39 PM| Cultists never want competition. What's new here? |
Submitted by Sasha
at 7/18/2008 5:39:13 PM| I think it's entirely possible that the Yanks COULD get their way even all the way to what the newspapers quoted above suggest - yea, even all the way with VGR: they 'per se' have roughly 120 (if we exclude 4-5 conservatives: Duncan, Ackermann, Iker, Peter Beckwith {Springfield? - NOT Newark} and perhaps Mark Lawrence); then, when we add 30 liberal-tending Canucks, that gives around 25% of all the attendees. If those from Ireland, Wales, Scotland, England, Australia (excluding the good conservatives of Jensen's ilk), New Zealand and the TEO plants of Central America + Brazil, they then could have the majority needed to even force Mr. Rowan Williams' hand. If that happens, yours truly has absolutely NO DOUBT whatsoever that Mr. Williams will cast his lot with them... While that could well mean the dispossession of much property from conservatives everywhere (notably USA, Canada, Australia and the UK + Ireland), it will then truly winnow who are the real Christians. I DON'T want us to be put into such a bind; however, we can't but be prepared for such an evil eventuality... Off-topic but somewhat interesting: Trinity-Wall Street, apparently due to cost, has decided not to restore their severely-damaged (by Al-Qaeda!!!) grand Æolian-Skinner pipe-organ, using a Marshall & Ogletree electronic instead... |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 7/18/2008 5:57:01 PM| Whatever happened to "The Archbishop of Canterbury can't interfere in the internal workings of a national church because he's not the boss of them"? Moreover, I am extremely worried by this: "They're setting up as something else in the same geographical territory." Does this mean that the Roman Catholics, Lutherans, Presbyterians, and everyone else not within the loving embrace of TEC must either hand over the keys to the church buildings or prepare to be deported? I am alarmed, alarmed I tell you! First the Holy See of Ypsilanti promulgates that we are merely an ecclesial community and not a true church, and now this! ;-) |
Submitted by Sasha
at 7/18/2008 6:52:15 PM| Don't worry, Fuinseoig (likely you're anyway being just facetious...)! If The "Piskies" tried anything of the sort, they would REALLY land in a hornet's nest - TEO is NOBODY's national "church" (outside of the UK - and with this kind of behaviour, it won't be too long before they become disestablished!!)!!! :-) Ergo, they can't do anything to anybody else - only the names "Episcopal" and "Anglican" might be up for grabs - and not even then (think Anglican Province of America, Reformed Episcopal Church, Anglican Catholic Church, etc....).... |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 7/18/2008 8:29:22 PM| Oh, Sasha, I'm in fear and trembling here, lest the Episcopal Guard - led by those staunch and fearless diehards from Ypsilanti - launch an attack upon the rival denominations daring to set up shop in the same geographical territory as the Episcopal Church ;-) No, but as I was led to believe in previous discussions of the function of the Archbishop of Canterbury, TEC reminded us that - thank heavens! - unlike those grubby Papists, the Anglican Communion had neither Pope nor Curia, nor could any external body interfere in a Province or tell any constituent Church of any Province what to do or not do. Everybody's got their own set of Canons, and those are the only rules worth anything. Apparently, that only holds true up to the point they want the Archbishop to tell everyone else to do exactly as TEC wants. Quelle surprise! |
Submitted by Sasha
at 7/18/2008 8:58:11 PM| Ah, Fuinseoig: if THAT happens, then we'll know even more than ever that the Second Horseman of the Apocalypse will have come for us - THAT to be a way for us all to start killing each other the way it's happening in Latin America, Africa, Asia and those other places where Islâm is wreaking its super-mischief |
Submitted by LaVallette
at 7/18/2008 9:20:23 PM| "The Archbishop of Canterbury will be told this week to stop conservative clergy leaving their national churches and becoming bishops in other countries." "He will be told that the process of conservative American clergy opting out of their national body and becoming bishops in African and South American churches goes against tradition and must be stopped." "Dr Williams will also be urged to prevent orthodox Anglicans, who believe the Bible teaches that homosexuality is wrong, from setting up a new province in North America" All Hail Pope Rowan I, nominated and simultaneously elected by a small conclave of members of the British Government (Labour) and approved by HM Elizabeth II of England, Scotland and Ireland and all her Dominions beyond the Seas, indeed the one and only sockpuppet of the "liberals who are dominating the ten-yearly Lambeth Conference". Now go and do what you are told!!!!!! and tell all recalcitrants ,that if they don't toe the Anglican Pope's line, they will be invaded by a packs of gay British bull dogs carried on ships of the British Navy, under the flags of the Episcopal and Canadian Anglican Churches with the Rainbow battle flags of the "battalions of pro-gay lobbyists" nailed to the top masts. That will show them!!!! Have these people no idea that they are turning their Church into the laughing stock and the butt of bad jokes all round the world? |
Submitted by Fuinseoig
at 7/18/2008 10:13:41 PM| "(T)he process of conservative American clergy opting out of their national body and becoming bishops in (other)churches goes against tradition and must be stopped." Help me out here with a bit of history, okay, lads? "There were no Anglican bishops in the Americas to ordain him, so he sailed to London on July 7. In England, however, his consecration was rationalized as impossible because, as an American citizen, he could no longer take the oath of allegiance to the English King. Seabury then turned to the Scottish Episcopal Church, whose bishops at that time refused to recognize the authority of King George III. He was consecrated in Aberdeen on November 14, 1784, with the one condition that in the matter of the Holy Communion he study the Scottish Rite and work for its adoption rather than the English rite of 1662." So lessee here: "Samuel Seabury was the first American Episcopal bishop, the second Presiding Bishop of the Episcopal Church, USA, and the first Bishop of Connecticut" was firstly "ordained deacon and priest in the Church of England in 1731" but in order to become a Bishop, was consecrated in the Church of Scotland. Which was an entirely different church. And to cap it off, he was then the first bishop of yet a third church - the Episcopal Church in the United States.So our boy Sammy was, at one time or another, at least notionally a member of three different churches within the Anglican Communion (leapfrogged from Church of England to Scottish Episcopal Church to Episcopal Church of the United States). And this is the tradition that "conservative American clergy" are going against, which must be stopped. Uh-huh. Yeah, sure, I understand that perfectly. |
Submitted by Katherine
at 7/19/2008 5:00:07 AM| Let's say the conservatives at Lambeth are, say, 40%. They will have been carefully placed so that they are a minority in each and every small group and yabba-dabba-do group. This means that the numbers could be manipulated to "demand" that Robinson be admitted to the conference. I rather like the clarity that would result, I hope, from the 40% then withdrawing from further Lambeth proceedings and finishing the two weeks with meetings in the dining hall. |
Submitted by Surrender Orothy
at 7/19/2008 6:06:57 AM| Rowan - take your hands out of the pockets of the Whore of Babylon. |